Falcons Quote of the Day: The Matt Ryan Test
by James Rael on Feb 7, 2012 10:06 PM EST
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PrintDan Soloman, an Austin-based freelance writer, has devised what he not-so-affectionately refers to as The Matt Ryan Test. Here's the article where it's explained. And this is his description:
Here’s a way to determine whether a team has a decent quarterback in place or not — let’s call it The Matt Ryan Test. Matt Ryan, the Atlanta Falcons quarterback, is an above-average player whose best years are still ahead of him, but he’s unlikely to ever be confused with Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas — the very definition of "decent." The Matt Ryan Test is this: If you’d trade your team’s quarterback for Matt Ryan in an even exchange, then your team doesn’t have a decent quarterback in place.
Yikes. I don't like that. It's unlikely to catch on, especially if Nolan can deliver. His logic is flawed. There are less efficient QBs you'd label as "decent." For example, during their 2011 campaigns, Vick, Smith, Flacco, Cutler, Roethelisberger, Schaub, and Rivers were less efficient than Ryan.
But c'mon! Facts don't matter. Not when you can rely on a bad playoff record to make you're point. The 2011 Giants, 2010 Packers, and 2008 Cardinals weren't that good anyway.
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I don't think this is as horrible a test...
as the excerpt would imply. He admits Ryan still has his best days ahead of him, and that Atlanta is truly in a very good situation with him. He’s saying Matt isn’t the best QB in the league, and I would agree. But that leaves room for him to grow, which he will. We all forget that he is still fairly young
by wh00578 on Feb 7, 2012 10:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I wouldn't trade Matty for anyone
and, really, I don’t know of a QB that does it quite like Matt does.
Eli might actually be the best comparison man-to-man.
I liken Matty to a slightly watered down version of Tom Brady. Brady isn’t mobile at all, but he runs probably the best offense in the NFL. Brady is incredibly football smart – perhaps the smartest QB ever to play the game. Matt has a bit longer of a windup than Brady, whose delivery is like cutting warm butter. It’s incredibly smooth AND fast, coupled with his decision making and the fact that he can run an offense as well as anyone makes him one of the best.
Stats aside, I think Matt plays a similar game. He’s incredibly football smart and has the capability of running a no-huddle offense with the entirety of the playbook, and did so with great efficiency over the course of the season.
Matt isn’t very mobile, but he doesn’t have to be. Eli and Brady are masters of subtle movements in the pocket to evade sacks and make plays. I think Matt gets nervous and tries to run outside of the pocket rather than trying to move up in the pocket.
Here’s a little nugget for you all:
Since 2005, there hasn’t been a QB that has come into the league that is better than Matt Ryan, and that includes Cam. Only one I’d say gives him a run is Stafford, but the jury is still out on him since he hasn’t been doing it year in and year out yet.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 10:26 PM EST reply actions
I understand
you wanna stick up for your guy, but you wouldn’t take Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Mannings, Rothlesburger in a straight up trade? I understand that age is a factor with Brady and Brees but I would trade Matt Ryan for any of the above. Even a questionable Peyton Manning.
by Mark Mandingo on Feb 7, 2012 10:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agree 100%
MR is a good young QB but If you can get a elite QB like Rodgers or Manning then yes. I wouldn’t trade Matt for any young QB (outside of Stanzi).
by pierre02 on Feb 7, 2012 10:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That was supposed to be a reply to mark
by pierre02 on Feb 7, 2012 11:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nope.
Rodgers is a brilliant QB, but I don’t want him. I wouldn’t trade Matt for him, not in a heartbeat. The city loves Matt. I wouldn’t want the guy who just murdered our D a season ago in the playoffs. I think the D would resent him.
Brees is getting old, and he’s the product of an offensive genius in New Orleans. Plus, he took a long time to figure it out. AND HE’S A SAINT.
Peyton is old and hurt. Too risky at this point.
Eli is comparable to Matt, so why make the switch?
Big Ben is a molester and is overrated as sin if you ask me. The product of having a great D. He has some great qualities, but Matt wins in the things we need.
Brady is 35 and wouldn’t last behind our OL.
There ya go.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t want the guy who just murdered our D a season ago in the playoffs. I think the D would resent him.
The D would resent him for being an awesome QB? Really?
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
The D would resent him for embarrassing them.
Believe me, there might be mutiny in the locker room. Egos are too huge, especially if Rodgers (who sounds like he can be an ass at times) were to make a smart remark about the whipping he gave our D last year.
But really, it’ll never happen, so this whole “What if we were to trade” thing is silly.
A trade involving two good QBs is so unlikely, the line for it at Vegas is probably pretty huge.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
I think that’s rather stretched reasoning to find an excuse to say you wouldn’t take the reigning NFL MVP over Ryan.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
That's just my personal opinion.
Matt Flynn sure played well when Rodgers didn’t play.
In fact, Flynn broke all kinds of Packers records in that one game.
A backup.
I’ve even said before that Rodgers is a better QB than Matt because if the two switched places, Ryan could not duplicate what Rodgers does there, but Rodgers could duplicate what Matt does here.
That being said, I personally don’t want him here. I would rather have the kid that we drafted, that has grown into an awesome QB right in front of us, to lead us to victory, not someone we picked up because we wanted a “QB upgrade”, I don’t care how good he is. That’s pretty much pulling a New York Yankees.
If Matt wasn’t capable of taking us to the Super Bowl, then I could see where I might be willing to say “Yeah, I’d rather have so-and-so.” but Matt’s plenty capable, so why should I desire anyone else?
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 8, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you about each player...
Except.
Rodgers.
Come on. Straight up for Ryan? It would be a no brainer.
Here are the QBs I would rather have than Ryan (right now): Rodgers and Dan Orlovsky.
GATA!
The guy is point on
and that is Ryan is an average QB in the NFL. If you wouldn’t trade for him, (and count up the ones he wouldn’t trade,and he is right) and Ryan is dead in the middle of the pack or average.
If you would trade for him, by definition, you have a QB problem as you have a less than average QB.
Ryan may get better (this will be year five) and I hope he does, but right now, average is what he is.
So you're suggesting there are 15-16 QBs in the NFL who are better than Matt right now?
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously
you didn’t read the link in your post. Please read or reread. He is dead on point.
To make it easier, let’s divide the league into thirds. Top, middle, last. Ryan is in the middle, his Peyton impression taken into consideration.
by Whopper Dawg on Feb 8, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not worried about what he thinks.
I’m asking you what you think.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 8, 2012 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
As I have stated
right now today, I think Ryan is an average QB and the Matt Ryan test is right on the mark. What numeric range are the average QBs in, I’d say 12 to 20. The guys the author listed is about right.
Now to be fair, if you list the all time QBs, Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Starr, Unitas, Aikman, Young, Manning, that won rings most played with other HOFs, many played with multiple HOFs and some even with HOF players and a HOF coach.
Does Ryan have that luxury? Not even close. And I would be a lot higher on him except for two things and they are pretty bigs things. One is accuracy, and I am not talking about % of passes completed (he was 60% in college and he is 60% in the pros) and that is absolutely average, but rather where he puts the ball, are the receivers being hit in stride, is the deep ball there? I am afraid the answers to those two questions is no, and that is a big deal. The second is, and probably even more important, he does rise to the occasion in the biggest games, in fact, he goes the other way, he has his worst games in the biggest games. And that is one strength that Big Ben and Eli have (to pick two current QBs whose stats during the regular season are somewhat comparable to Ryan, but how they play on the bigger stages leave him in the dust.
You say Matt falls in the 12-20 range?
Tell me 12 QBs that you would be willing to trade him for
know what you believe in and why you believe in it
OK
Eli, Romo, Stafford, Rogers, Cutler, Brees, Cam, Brady, Big Ben, Peyton (assumes health), Rivers, Shaub,
After next year, unless Ryan improves, and depending on how they do, Dalton (I think him for sure) and Bradshaw, maybe Flynn and Yates (outplayed Ryan in this third or fourth start).
And immediately after the draft, Luck and RPGIII.
You are joking...
Right?
Who the hell is Bradshaw? You mean Bradford?
Did Ryan pee in your Cheerios? Have you actually looked at stats, or are these opinions based on hype and/or the eye-test?
One has to consider the offenses and the defenses of teams when looking at stats. There’s a reason Cam had a bunch of yards: they were always behind.
Ryan finished 8th in the league in QB rating, which ignores bloated stats to some extent. He was ahead of many of the guys you listed.
Personally, I believe MM’s conservative and predictable play calling held Ryan back.
But I can’t take you seriously when you throw out names like Dalton, Flynn, Yates, and a made-up Bradshaw (Ryan’s better than Bradford).
GATA!
Last I checked
Romo is more of a choke artist than Ryan
Eli’s defense has won 2 Superbowls and you’d take him (him and Matt are basically the same QB)
Stafford plays one healthy year OUT OF 3 and you want him?
What has Cutler done?
Why would you take Shaub over Ryan? They are basically the same QB but Schaub cannot finish games.
Your honorable mention list does not make any sense – Flynn hasn’t done anything and Yates played pretty sorry pretty consistently.
It appears as though you are arguing for the sake of arguing here.
know what you believe in and why you believe in it
I think
that Ryan (and TD for that matter) is riding the tsunami of positive public opinion that was created when he started in his first year (taboo in the NFL) and did fairly well, we got to the playoffs, and that came on the heels of the Vick/Petrino disasters. But honestly say, is the team and Ryan better today than it was in that first year? I think roughly the same.
As for Ryan pissing in my cornflakes, I repost (from above) my issues with him:
And I would be a lot higher on him except for two things and they are pretty bigs things. One is accuracy, and I am not talking about % of passes completed (he was 60% in college and he is 60% in the pros) and that is absolutely average, but rather where he puts the ball, are the receivers being hit in stride, is the deep ball there? I am afraid the answers to those two questions is no, and that is a big deal. The second is, and probably even more important, does he rise to the occasion in the biggest games?, in fact, he goes the other way, he has his worst games in the biggest games. And that is one strength that Big Ben and Eli have (to pick two current QBs whose stats during the regular season are somewhat comparable to Ryan), but how they play on the bigger stages leave him in the dust. They rise to the occasion.
Define "biggest games"
The playoffs? For Ryan has beaten many, many good teams in his career.
Also, Ryan’s struggles with the deep ball and other passes may have to do with what was being practiced. It’s no surprise MM was not a big proponent of either the short (screens etc.) or deep passes. Thus, you can’t expect Ryan to become a stud deep passer when that wasn’t the focus of the offense.
Additionally, sometimes the key to a good deep pass is a defense that is on its heels. Our offense was so predictable the deep passes were useless or choreographed.
But, as mentioned below, if after a couple of seasons in a new offense built more around screens and deeper passes, Ryan’s still struggling. Then we’ll know Ryan simply doesn’t have it.
Once again, I’m not saying Ryan’s perfect or that he’s the best QB ever, but the jury’s still out for me. I think he’s a smart, solid QB, who can (and will) win many post-season games. He simply needs to be in the right system.
Also, let’s get an o-line that can block!
GATA!
He has
done OK at times against a good team.
But when it is a big game, beating the Saints to win the division or the playoffs, he has it in reverse. That is pretty clear really.
But in those situations
particularly big games, how often is it a case of “horrible, horrible, predictable playcalling”, or “where’s the no-huddle”?
Atlanta has definitely lost games against good teams because of MM.
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and Matt Ryan has made poor decisions
I am on the Matt Ryan bandwagon – I think the kid has a great future and I look forward to seeing how far he takes this team.
However, the fact is clear – he did choke BAD in the playoffs two season in a row now. Yes, I get that we never made GB punt last year, but Matt Ryan made a lot of dumb decisions that game too (the most glaring one was that last pass before the half).
He also seems to be unable to put it together against the Saints when it matters (as Whopper Dawg stated).
However, I do stand on my point – I would not trade Matt Ryan for Eli Manning or Big Ben. This is not because I am a homer and “I love my QB” – it is because he is a young talent and I look forward to seeing where HE is at when he has been in the league as long as they have.
know what you believe in and why you believe in it
Im gonna go
slightly above average, would i trade matt for a top tier qb loyalty says no and not just loyalty also, we’re not talkin about curtis panter here…if you said rodgers for ryan straight up or eli or brees or brady such as that nature, i mean how could you say no to that….i like what ryan does with the offense, the no huddle, calling audibles as he sees fit in most cases, i do believe matt’s best days are ahead of him and seeing what we’ve already seen that should be exciting, to remember what him and Smitty and TD brought this from after the 07 season has been fun to watch and we owe Matt alot of credit for that, the consistency with all these other qb’s is the o-line they have, ours isnt exactly formatted for the drop back 40 times a game, we have the smaller faster line which sets up nice for pulling guards and the run game, i think if we put a few pieces whether that be within the team or in the draft or free agency and give Matt that protection we may be seeing and saying things in a different light.
This Is Dumb
People need to leave Matt alone, statisticly his first 4 season have been better then brees,brady,and elis but he gets heat for not winning a playoff game. The guy lost to 3 teams who all went on to the SB, while guys like sanchez and flacco is barely do anything to get to the title game get a pass. When has ryan had an elite defense never, this was the first year hes had more then one good weopon, and his oline was atrocious this year, Manning won his sb in his 6th season. Matts a great qb and will become elite. QBS typically become elite around the 5th/6th year.
by Nedk23 on Feb 7, 2012 11:25 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Eli or Peyton won the superbowl
Peyton in season 9
Eli in season 4
by brotherbrown on Feb 8, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
Another Thing
What QB who is slighly above average can run the no huddle like he does get defense to show their coverage and then change the play to something better, only qbs who do that are Brady,Mannings,Brees,Rodgers and some times Rivers. Tony Romo,MIke Vick,Alex Smith,Joe Flacco,Matt Schuab are all slightly above average qbs
Not disagreeing, but people give Rodgers waaaaayy too much credit
He doesn’t ever change the call at the line of scrimmage. He runs exactly what McCarthy calls. Rodgers doesn’t audible out of anything. He just has a great playcaller, something Ryan hasn’t ever had.
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by phoenix falcoholic on Feb 8, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Glad I'm not the only one who notices this.
Thank you for noticing that. Brees also has the same luxury.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 8, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
Okay Ill Agree With Rodgers Part
I Have seen him identify the coverage and make audibles to WR, but with brees as much as i hate him its him and payton combining their knowledge during practice and games to get into right situation, its unfortunate for matt because he had we know who at OC…
This is just dumb
Ryan is right in that group with Rivers, Romo, maybe Stafford, I still put Eli in, Schaub, and Ben. A few might take Eli and Ben out just because of super bowls but I think they are a highly overrated “stat” for QB’s as it truly is a team accomplishment. Either way this is about the group of the notch below elite where no one in this group would trade with each other because you automatically like your guy more, anyone below this group would trade in because they have a bad qb, and anyone in it would likely trade out to get a top guy(taking age out of play). You could really sub a bunch of names with Ryan and have the same “test”.
Eli can thank the D for his two rings
not that he played poorly (he made some good throws, in combination with some brilliant catches)
but the ‘07 Patriots offense was legendary, and I can tell you Eli didn’t do a thing about that.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Also
Eli made some great throws, but the catches were better. Is Eli suddenly better than Brady because Eli’s receiver caught the ball(Mario)and Bradys didn’t(Welker)? They both made throws that would have likely won the game but Eli’s WR made a great catch and Brady’s didn’t. There is just so much that goes into winning, no QB will ever put the team on his back all the way to a super bowl yet for some reason they get all the credit.
Yeah
That just shows you the kind of talent Eli has that Brady doesn’t. Brady makes it happen with no outside presence and a couple of munchkin slot receivers. Yeah Gronk is great, as is Hernandez, but athletic LBs can handle them. (I think one or the other draws a bracket, usually)
Brady really does more with less, but the OL he has is as good as anyone’s, which is why his receivers do so well. They just kinda sneak open since they have 6 seconds to do so instead of 2 like Matty gets.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Thank You
that whole year eli was questioned even in the sb he made plays in the final drive yes thats impressive but, the real mvp of that sb was the dline with 5sakcs, i agree that pats TEam was legendary not jsut the offense even the defense was full of studs
You are way too much of a homer
You could make that case for the first ring but Eli was lights out this year. He had 12 TD’s with only 1 int this post season. No one player wins or loses a game but Eli was the main reason the Giants won their second SB in 4 years.
by pierre02 on Feb 8, 2012 12:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
granted
But take nothing away from Eli
He doesn’t turn the ball over in the playoffs and makes throws when it counts.
He doesn’t loses
He wins
Surely Matt Ryan will do that soon.
by brotherbrown on Feb 9, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
I would take Rodgers in a New York minute over Ryan. Heck I would take Cam Newton over Ryan right now. Ryan is a good QB and I honestly hope he matures as a player. I would love to see Matt Ryan put a little more meat on that meek frame of his and stand tall in the pocket, deliver the football with a pass rush breathing down his throat. He’s a tough kid but hey it’s football and the other team gets a paycheck to so he’s gonna get sacked and he’s not always gonna have the perfect amount of time to make a decision but his decision time must speed up a bit. One aspect of Rodgers and Newtons game that I love is their mobility along with a rocket for an arm. Listen I’m a Falcon faithful but when Ryan scrambles he looks like he’s feet hurt. The fact is some Falcon fans would not trade Ryan for anyone simply because they have taken it to a personal level and love Matt Ryan. I am a Falcon fan not an individual player fan. Would this team be better right now with Rodgers instead of Ryan? $%# yea, no doubt in my mind. However Matt Ryan is who we have so he will have to be surrounded with blue chip talent and hope for the best. Matt Ryan got sacked 26 times in 2011. Eli got sacked 28 times. Rodgers got sacked 36 times. Brady got sacked 32 times.
On what grounds would you take Cam over Matt?
I mean, I can live with people wanting Rodgers over Matt, but Cam? Come on.
Cam can’t even run an offense yet.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 8, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
Cam can’t even run an offense yet.
EXACTLY and he just threw for more yards than any rookie in the history of the game, with one WR. Just imagine what the kid does when he learns how to run the offense and gets a couple of weapons. Most of all, I like his ability to use his legs to make a play and at 6’5 250lbs corners and safeties have to think about do they really wanna tackle this guy and lets not even talk about the cannon his has for an arm.
He threw for so many yards because
A) Pretty nice O-line.
B) His ability to run is a very serious threat. He can make plays.
C) He faced some terrible secondaries this year.
D) Two pretty good TEs and and no longer salty Steve Smith
E) Semblance of a running game
Not to say he’s not talented, because he good God he is, but his situation on that offense isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.
I'm just saying...
OK
I guess I get your point. Cam has got some real ability but your saying it’s not all him it’s ABCDE. When most QB’s have the type of year Newton had he gets the credit for it but your saying if he didn’t have the surrounding cast he would not be able to achieve as he has. Well is not that the case with all “teams”? Last time I check Matt Ryan has an All-Pro RB, an All-Pro WR, a 1st ballot H.O.F. TE, not even gonna mention JuJo yet, a better than avg Special Teams, a Defense ranked 12th in the league(which is well above avg). Not very many teams enjoy having those types of weapons my friend. It appears to me that everything around Matt Ryan is going to have to be perfect in order for him to achieve the ultimate goal.
the Panthers had a better Offensive Coordinator
by brotherbrown on Feb 9, 2012 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
it isn't even just that
Remember when Josh Freeman looked decent at times last year? Remember how Tebow kept winning games?
If you have some legs and size and you run around long enough until a play is completely broken to the point it isn’t even a designed play anymore then defenders are going to be out of position and you are going to be able to make something happen.
How long did that strategy work for the Bucs?
Just sayin’
know what you believe in and why you believe in it
Theres a Diffrence
Between their sacks and ryans, ryan threw way less then brady so natural hell have less sacks plus ryan never had a clean pocket all year those guys u mentioned had nice pockets, and tom brady nor peyton have meat on their bodies dont be silly, Matt Ryan> the nfl in two more years
If you think Matt Ryan has the same arm strength as Brady or Peyton you are silly.
Hopefully a little more muscle can get him up to par with his deep ball, because his accuracy on the long ball needs to improve.
Nobody thinks Ryan has the same arm strength as Brady
or the GOAT, Peyton.
But 90% of those “big plays” that everyone seems to believe consist of the qb throwing the ball 80 yards downfield are 20-40 yard throws, with a whole bunch of YAC Or even a screen pass, with a whole bunch of YAC.
If you look at that TD throw by Brady on the Giants 1, Brady had all day to throw. He could’ve cooked an egg, read war and peace, and still have time to throw. Now, I know this is pointing out one particular play, but this was not unusual for the Patriots. It’s not unusual for almost any of those teams with “great” qb’s. Then you look at the Falcons, and the defenders are almost never blocked.
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Matt Ryan Has Fine Arm Strength
I Remember watching the cheifs game when he let the ball rip for a 70yrd td it looked like it was gonna hit the roof before coming down, and we’ve seen him zip pass between defenders many times, the only nfl players unreal arm strength are, Vick,Stafford. Its the nfl every qb has a good arm unless your chad pennington lol
Yep I remember that pass and the problem I have with it is exactly what you said. He had to throw it up to the moon to get the ball that far down field. lol. Look we don’t really need to go into what happens when the ball floats up in the air like that do we. It’s an established fact that Matt Ryan arm strength is less than desirable although adequate. Everything from his scouting report, to the obvious eyeball test confirms it. Matt Ryan is can spin a ball very accurately anywhere within the 20 to 30 yard range, anything farther looks like it scrapped the Sea of Tranquility to get to it’s destination. Matt Ryan is an adequate QB at this stage. Hopefully he is not content and uses this offseason to workout a little more and increase his arm strength and take his game to a higher level.
Really don't like
Total sack number, if you could find the numbers on QB hurries I would be pretty interested in that. Ryan’s 26 sacks gives the impression that our line played solid when in reality it was pretty damn bad. Ryan rarely had a clean pocket to pass from and much of that low sack total can be attributed to Ryan having to get rid of the ball too early. Also you kind of make it seem as though Ryan doesn’t stand tall in the pocket, which he does.
Sometimes Ryan stands tall
but sometimes Ryan has that deer in the headlights look, like he’s scared. Listen I like the kid but would I take some of the other QB’s in the league over Ryan? Absolutely! I could probably say that about just about every player on the team. Hell it’s not like any of these guys are the best in the league at their position.
True
That could also could be our O line play which is pretty bad. I blame TD. Drafting late prospects and expecting them to step up after you let guys go is some what dumb. The O line this year was horrible. The sacks weren’t that high since MR got rid of the ball quick.
That being said Im still not sold on MR. I think he could evolve but he needs to be the main point of the offense. He rarely goes through all his progressions and often forces the ball into double coverage. He only seems to have command of the offense in the no huddle but that could point to how bad MM was as a OC.
by pierre02 on Feb 8, 2012 12:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
TD has had this problem where he was preoccupied with finding the diamond in the rough. Hell just go get players period. If your picking in the 5th rd pick the best guy available not some guy that would have gone undrafted. Kerry Mierer and Shan Shillinger could have been signed as undrafted free agents days after the draft was over IMO. The O-line philosophy of using guys of a lesser skill set that are scrappy and tough was due to Paul Boudreau and that’s why he’s looking for a job today.
I Couldn't Agree More
In his first 3years he never looked scared in the pocket this year he did and i cant blame him, i remeber watching the eagles game i felt bad for the poor guy he was getting hit every time he dropped back, having a bad oline like this will only make him tougher, because i hope he never has to deal with a line this bad again
I don’t care if your getting the piss knocked out of you every other play. TRUST ME when I tell you that the very LAST thing you want to do as a QB is show the defense you are fearful or rattled. It only fuels their desire. Blood is in the water and it’s time to hunt. No matter what happens you better stand tall, keep your eyes down field and deliver the football. Matt Ryan will never be some “poor guy”, he is a highly paid professional football player. This game is not for the meek.
you would take Cam Newton over Ryan
Holy (Bleep)
you know he’s a turnover machine.
He doesn’t play well in the second half of games
by brotherbrown on Feb 9, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
All be it he is a rookie
And he throws as many passes as Brees so he will naturally have alot of ints.
by pierre02 on Feb 9, 2012 1:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ryan's Ceiling
first off i’ll offer a personal opinion: ryan is a 4 out of 5 star QB. good enough to win a SB on a talented squad like the birds. he is not in the elite group, but he’s better than average.
the question is, how much better will he get?
matty’s biggest supporters often end a pro-ryan argument by saying that he’s a young qb who will only get better as he enters his prime. while this is certainly my hope, my worry is that he is already fairly close to his full potential.
as a 4 year college guy with 4 seasons as our starter, ryan is largely a known commodity. he will be 27 by the start of next season. Statistically, the matt ryan of 2011 was not as good as the 2010 version in terms of completion pct, td-int ratio, or—the most important statistic for quarterbacks—winning percentage. his athleticism can’t really improve (except maybe the deep ball?), and his knowledge of the game is already at a very high level. sure the new OC may help, but Ryan has already spent plent of time calling his own plays so it’s tough to claim that new playcalling will make him worlds better.
I think that in evaluating ryan, we need to start thinking of him not in terms of what he could become, but what he is—-a better than average QB. because that is what he most likely will be for the rest of his career.
A lot of
Good QB’s don’t peak by season 4. Brady, both Mannings, and Brees come to mind when thinking modern QB’s. All of them improved greatly after four seasons. It is a very complex position and there is still a lot he can learn and improve on. He is still 3-4 years away from his prime.
Just for comparisons sake, Manning took a similar and probably more drastic step back in season 4 from season 3, the Colts changed coaches(they did keep there OC though) and Peyton improved and continued to improve for the next few years.
not hating though
we can definitely win with him. i firmly believe that we will. just like eli, some people may go back after the fact and call ryan elite, after the falcons win the SB.
but aside from building chemistry with julio, i dont see how a guy who is basically tapped out in terms of his own athletic ability and his football knowledge is expected to become a top flight qb. what we really have seen from him is the steady career progression of a better than average quarterback.
I think saying Matt Ryan is an average quarterback is kind of silly
But he’s not Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Eli Manning or perhaps Matthew Stafford. It’s possible that he ascends to those heights with a new offensive focus and weapons like Julio Jones, but it may not happen.
The hand-wringing over that is, in my opinion, overblown. Ideally every NFL team would have surefire Hall of Famer under center, but it’s not feasible. Ryan is good enough to win a Super Bowl—though his post-season performance has to improve—if the team around him is also talented. He’s not going to single-handedly bring them a title, but again, how many quarterbacks actually do that?
He’s a Top 10 QB in today’s NFL. That’s good enough for me.
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This...
QB A’s first fourr season (using QB ratings): 55.4, 75.9, 77.0, 73.9
QB B’s first four seasons: 76.9, 67.5, 104.8, 89.2
QB C’s first four seasons: 87.7, 80.9, 91.0, 92.2
QB D’s first four seasons: 71.2, 90.7, 94.7, 84.1
QB E’s first four seasons: 86.5, 85.7, 85.9, 92.6
QB F’s first four seasons: 98.1, 98.6, 75.4, 104.1
Which one’s Ryan?
GATA!
by Jman781 on Feb 8, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh...
Here are the six QBs above, not in the right order, obviously: Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and Big Ben.
While I know QB rating isn’t everything, I find it interesting how similar the numbers are four these obviously “better” QBs. In fact, some of the numbers surprised me.
It’s really harsh to compare Ryan at this point in his career with someone at the end of his career…
Look at Elway’s first four seasons…
GATA!
Thank you for this
Sometimes people just don’t see it and it takes hard facts to drive the point home. Of course, statistics aren’t the only things, but thinking back on the respective careers of these guys the numbers seem to match up with how I remember them playing. If Matt Ryan continues at his current rate of progression and doesn’t get to and/or win a Super Bowl, it will be a reflection of team deficiencies, not Ryan’s.
Exactly...
I find it funny people are including Eli as “better” than Ryan, for he was average at best his first four seasons (hint: he’s #1 on the list above).
Another interesting tidbit: Big Ben is QB #6 above. He’s better than people give him credit…While I dislike him as a human, he’s a damn good QB…
GATA!
To add to this point
of the 5 QB’s you listed that are clearly better than Ryan, only one was better at this point in his career (Brady).
Peyton had a reputation of not being able to win the big game until he won a SB. Rodgers sat on the bench for 3 years and in his 4th year, had numbers very comparable to Ryan’s 4th year. Brees’ first 4 years in the league were very average, with Ryan’’s 4th year being statistically superior to Brees’ 4th year. And Eli’s first 4 years in the league were very average, again Matt’s were better.
But that's the thing Dave
How long can we settle for the “top ten” label?
Dude is good enough to get us to the dance, but when he gets there he leans on the wall and drinks punch all night. We need somebody who wants to go to the dance and who’s sights are set on going home with the prom queen.
I pondered to myself the other day would I rather have 4 straight winning seasons or maybe 1 or 2 seasons that resulted in a Super Bowl victory and seasons of 5-11 in the others. I’d take the Super Bowl victory any day of the week.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
But it's so hard to get a Top 3 quarterback in the NFL
You can spend years trying, and the whole time you’re burning draft picks and tradeable assets for the guy. By the time you finally land him, your team might be in ruins, and he may not be able to get it done.
I’d rather surround Ryan with the best team possible, work on his deficiencies and try to win that way. If he simply can’t get it done in the playoffs—or if he regresses in teh regular season, maybe it’ll be time for a change. But he’s a quality QB who’s had three middling playoff performances. I want to give it more time.
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He’s a Top 10 QB in today’s NFL. That’s good enough for me.
I hear ya, maybe that is enough. Every QB at least needs some pieces to work with and if you look at the offense, one must admit that they are there (this year’s Oline disaster withstanding)..
But if you look at the SB winning QBs of the last 10 years, they are all HOF QBs or are likely to be HOF QBs, save for Dilfer and Johnson (who was all pro that year). That is 80% HOF QBs. That is also true for the complete list of SB winning QBs. Out of the 45 SBs, 36 were won by HOF QBs or QBs that will be HOF. That also is 80%.
So, as shown by a 45 year history, if you don’t have a HOF level QB, odds of you winning a SB aren’t very good. And I understand that every team can’t have a surefire HOF under center, but I am afraid the fact of the matter is, the SB winners usually do.
And if you look at the current QBs, there are probably 6 QBs headed for the HOF – Mannings, Brees, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben. And if we with Mr. Ryan are going to win one of these things, we will probably have to beat two of those guys and possibly three. Not saying we can’t, but to knock them off, you better have a helluva QB because they will.
I don't think that statistic means much
If a QB has a career QB rating of 70 and only completes 52% of his passes – if his team wins 3 superbowls then he is going to wind up in the hall of fame.
That is the nature of the position.
Eli Manning wouldn’t even be in the Hall of Fame talk if he didn’t have 2 SB rings.
know what you believe in and why you believe in it
I agree with the gist of what you're saying
And this is really the crux of the discussion with Ryan. Can he win playoff games? Is it the structure of the offense or something with him that’s led to the crappy performances in the post-season? Will he continue to grow as a passer?
I’d like to believe those questions haven’t been answered yet, but I expect this year we’ll learn more.
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I got a test for this guy.
See how many punches he can take in his throat.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Feb 8, 2012 9:59 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
What Caleb said is the exact sentiment of the city.
The willingness to settle.
Listen, I think Ryan is a good QB. In fact, his numbers have increased each season, adeed to the fact that he seemingly got over his usual second half of the season struggles last year. I would almost without a doubt choose Ryan if the question were who do you want to lead your team down the field in the 4th with only 2 minutes remaining.
With that being said, this is the last season before I hop off the Ryan train. Facts are facts. He hasn’t thrown for under 200 yards in each playoff game. He’s 0-3 in said playoff games. What’s scary is that he looks to be regressing in that area. Completely shuts it down come postseason. I remember one particular play where Tony G was running free over the middle on the slant and Ryan didn’t pull the trigger. He’s completely scared of turning the ball over. Do you think Ryan would have made that throw that Eli made to Manningham? Hell no. The only time I even him ever throwing something remotely close to that in crunch time was his rookie year to Jenkins.
Take off the Falcons shades Caleb. He’s good. Hell, he probably is top ten in the league but so is Phillip Rivers and look where that’s gotten him. You either got it or you don’t and beginning to lean towards the latter in regards to Meg Ryan.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
*added and he has thrown for under 200 yards in each playoff game.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
You do realize...
Ryan’s first three post-season opponents won three NFC Championships and two Super Bowls, right? You have to consider the opponents he’s faced, for he hasn’t “lost” a game against crappy teams.
Additionally, football is a team game. I don’t blame Ryan for the loss to Arizona, the defense was shredded against the Pack, and the entire offense took the day off against the Giants.
Could he have played better in each game, sure, but the teams who beat Ryan weren’t chumps.
Peyton Manning went 0-3 in his first three starts, too…
GATA!
Also
Post-season wins are tough to measure.
Flacco and Sanchez have a lot of wins, but the teams they were on had great defenses. If the Falcons had the same defense as the 2000 Ravens, I guarantee Ryan would’ve won a few games by now…
Heck, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer have won Super Bowls, and I’d hardly consider them studs…
GATA!
I understand this
And this is why I’m willing to give him another season. This is a results based league my friend.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
Stop the comparisons
Please. You’re only preparing yourself for a big let down. And of course the other teams are good they’re in the playoffs!!!! And the facts still remain that he hasn’t thrown over 200 yards in a playoff game against the depleted secondaries of GB and NYG. I could care less what our opponents go on to do, I’m judging based of what I see in THAT game. There were plays where Ryan flat out didn’t pull the trigger because he’s scared of the turnover. I don’t know how much it falls on Smitty or how much falls on Ryan. These are facts. Plays were there in the Giants game where he did have time in the pocket and nothing came of it.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
Stop the comparisons?
How is one supposed to know if Ryan is good or bad without comparing him to other options? By indicating that you may want a different QB, you’re inevitably comparing Ryan with other QBs, as you’re implying other QBs are better than Ryan in the post-season.
Thus, I’m comparing Ryan to other QBs. Ryan has only been in the league 4 years. How many QBs in NFL history won a bunch of playoff games by the end of their 4th season? Matt Ryan is still only 26!
I’m not making excuses, for Ryan can certainly improve, but to (a) ignore his age, (b) ignore the pieces surrounding him, and © ignore the opponents he’s faced (and where he’s faced them) makes zero sense.
GATA!
Reading is fundamental, ace.
I continue to tell you that I’m going solely off of end results. I don’t care about the career statistics or win/loss of other QBs because as you mentioned, they can very well be misleading. You say “a bunch of playoff games”, when all we want to see is one to prove that he is progressing under crunch time. Tebow did it. Yates did it. Flacco and Sanchez have done it. Not once do I mention another QB before this aside from Rivers and comparing him to Ryan as a top ten QB who crumbles when it matters.
You continue to mention the difficulty of these games. If you don’t think the Giants game was winnable, you’re fooling yourself. The defense played their a***s off for the first half and then said screw it after the offense didn’t show up, which falls on Mularkey and Ryan. I gave him a pass his rookie season against the Cards because he was just that, a rookie.
All those factors you mentioned at the end have 0 to do with things. Both the Cards game and Giants were winnable. Either you’re related to the guy or you didn’t watch the footage. There were passes to be made against the Giants and he didn’t throw the ball. I don’t think he even threw the ball 20 yards down field on a pass. Completely inexcusable and the fact that our fans accept this type of play is why Rob Parker writes articles. Like I said, he’s good. But when everybody is watching and it matters the most, well, you know the rest.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
If you're going to be snarky...
And say things like
Reading is fundamental, ace.
At least be consistent.
Not once do I mention another QB before this aside from Rivers and comparing him to Ryan as a top ten QB who crumbles when it matters.
Rivers is 3-4 in the playoffs.
when all we want to see is one to prove that he is progressing under crunch time.
Wait, on the one hand, Ryan is like Rivers, who is 3-4 in the playoffs. On the other hand you only want to see one playoff win. How does this makes sense when Rivers has three, yet “crumbles when it matters”? So what do you want of Ryan?
I gave him a pass his rookie season against the Cards because he was just that, a rookie.
Okay, so that eliminates one game. Thus, we’re looking at two games: the Packers game and the Giants game.
The Packers game was a blow out on both sides of the ball. So, really, we’re talking about the Giants game, but I think a lot of the problems in that game were based on tepid play calls by MM.
So, we’re going to cast aside Ryan, who’s 43-19, has led the Falcons to 4-straight winning seasons, who, statistically, is improving each season and is comparable to other QBs around the league at this stage in his career, including Peyton Manning, because Ryan had two bad games against the last two Super Bowl Champs? That’s harsh, man.
As for using comparisons, the original post, which this exchange is taking place, is solely based on comparisons. Thus, I don’t feel bad comparing Ryan to other QBs.
I understand the frustration, but I honestly think the OC was to blame more than Ryan. I want to see improvement, but I also understand he’s only 26 and maturing. Who’s coming in to replace Ryan? Who’s available that’s truly better than Ryan?
Serious question, name an available QB you’d rather have at the helm than Ryan. If you would rather have Mark Sanchez or Yates because of their playoff victories, you’re crazy. The Jets and the Texans won on a strong running game and great defenses, which the Falcons didn’t really have the last two seasons…
Once again, if Ryan struggles the next two seasons with a new O.C. then we’ll know for sure it’s Ryan and not the play calling. However, I honestly believe Koetter’s scheme will benefit Ryan more than MM’s…
GATA!
To quote mwalex
“You don’t get it now and you never will.”
Name an available QB? In theory Brees is available. And when the hell do I say I wanted Sanchez or Yates? You asked QBs who had won playoff games under the age of 26 and I gave you a list.
Watch that game tape against the Giants. Sure MM made horrible calls, but when the few calls that were actually decent came in Ryan did nothing with it.
And you keep forgetting the fact that I’ve kept saying I can give him another year, as he has improved on a yearly basis. I’m simply commenting on (a) how he’s looked in the postseason and (b) that his numbers in those games aren’t very good.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
Fair enough.
But to base an opinion of a QB based on one game is a bit much.
Many of the best QBs have had bad games in the post-season.
I’m not saying Matt Ryan is great. I never have. I simply don’t know what our other options are. Sure, I would’ve much rather had Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. this season, but those guys aren’t available.
If we show Ryan the door after next year because he loses yet another playoff game, who’s coming in here? I look at teams like Miami, Cleveland, Buffalo, Denver, Seattle, Washington, etc. and cringe at the QBs on those squads. I mention Sanchez and Yates, for they would probably be “available.” If winning in the post-season is the only criteria, then we can have those guys. (I don’t want them.)
Thus, I’m willing to settle for “Meg Ryan.”
Let’s focus on other areas of the team, like the offensive line and the defense. Let’s worry about Turner’s replacement, as well as Gonzo’s and Roddy’s (eventually) and Abraham’s. Let’s figure out who’s playing MLB for us or CB. Heck, I think we need a new safety.
In fact, of all the positions, QB is WAY down the list of pressing needs for us. For a franchise that has a history of mediocrity and losing (we were 4-12 in 2007), it’s interesting how many fans are throwing Smitty, TD, and Ryan under the bus so soon, when they have won 11, 9, 13, and 10 games in each of the last 4 seasons, a feat never done in the history of this team. (Sadly, we aren’t the Steelers, historically.)
Matt Ryan has the highest winning percentage of every active NFL QB not named Big Ben or Tom Brady. He has a better winning percentage than Brees, Peyton, etc. Hell, his winning percentage is better than the career winning percentages of Favre, Elway, Bradshaw, Steve Young, Aikman, Marino, etc.
I’m not saying Ryan is better than some of the guys listed, but I think people are being a bit too harsh. Let’s cut the guy some slack.
But I guess I don’t get it. Maybe all those wins were due to other players. But once you discredit his regular season success, you can’t then heap blame on him in the post-season.
While we shouldn’t be complacent, we must also be realistic. With the new O.C. and D.C., next year may be a season fully of growing pains. Let’s look at things after 2013, at least.
GATA!
I'm sorry, Dope
but by your argument, Flacco, Tebow, Sanchez, Trent Freaking Dilfer, etc. are all better qb’s than Ryan. And that is an asinine argument to try to make.
It's Great! To be! A Tennessee Vol!
Please reread
He asked for QBs under 26 who have won a playoff game and I named some off. In fact,when he suggested that’s what I was getting at, I told him what I just told you.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
by DopeFalcons on Feb 8, 2012 7:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Time
Look MR is a good QB! As I’ve said before give Ryan a good OC, screen passes, an OFFENSIVE LINE THAT GIVES HIM TIME to look over his choices, full preseason with JJ, better use of HD and Quizz and just see where in the hell he ends up. Give him a better D that gets off the field on 3rd downs and we do things in the playoffs! Now after 2 yrs and no playoff victories then it’s time to start looking! But I’ll be real shocked if we don’t whip some ass this yr! Go FALCONS!
by Sbaron55 on Feb 8, 2012 2:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Why is Ryan average
When all he does is win?
Or put you in a position to win games?
In the Texans game he tried to throw two passes that were a bit errand, but toward the end he put the ball on Julio’s hands.
He know how to lead come from behind drives.
We saw that in 2009 /10 and some of 2011
Now I cannot explain the playoff games
But the ARZ 2008-09 game was 30-24 when it was all said and done.
One score.
Peyton Manning had issues in playoffs until his 9th season.
MM may have slowed him down after the 2009 season.
Two Questions
Do you think that the Falcons could trade Ryan 1) to the Colts and then draft Luck? or 2) do you think that the Falcons could trade Ryan to whomever after the Colts but high enough to draft RPGIII? This is a straight up trade.
I haven’t heard anyone argue that Ryan is an elite QB, what does he need to do to be considered one and how long do you give him to get that done?
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