If The Giants Can Win The Super Bowl, So Can We
by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 2:57 PM EST
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UPDATE: The Anatomy of a Play series will start next Monday. I still have a couple things to iron out on my end, but it is coming and it should be fun, so long as I can juggle it and school. Should be fine. The first week or so might be kinda sloppy but it's all a learning process. I also want to start it at the beginning of a week, so that's also part of why.
I've said this a few times before, but I felt like, despite our sorry performance against the Giants, that they weren't that much better than us. The only real area where I feel like they soundly beat us talent-wise is defensive line (and maybe the OL, too, reinforcing my dad's theory that all games are won with whose lines play the best), which is probably a big part of why our team has its struggles on third down.
Their WR corps is pretty good, but if we would utilize ours, ours should be just as good. Eli has proven himself to be a fine quarterback, but there's not anything he can do that Matty can't do. That right there should be a positive in many Falcons' fans minds. For so long we asked, "Do we need a Peyton to win a Super Bowl?" which had responses such as "No, we just need an Eli." And there you have it folks. Eli just won a Super Bowl.
Yeah, parts of our team need a little work, and with a new coaching staff, there's no telling what kind of surprises we'll get. I have a class with a 49ers fan and he said that when he heard we hired Mike Nolan as DC, he became very sad since Mike Nolan is a boss and it's not like the 49ers need any more competition in the playoffs.
But it's funny that the Giants of all teams won the Super Bowl. All we heard all year long was how great all these super offenses were, and guess what? Defense won the Super Bowl. Defense beat the Saints and the Packers and the Patriots in the playoffs. (And us.)
Our D isn't that bad. Yeah, we had some bad games, but it's not like the offense was playing catch-up all the time. (If only because they were incapable of playing catch-up this year, but that problem went to JAX) We just need to follow the blueprint of the Giants and get stacked on the defensive line, with serviceable LBs (ours are better, but I'm biased) and a decent secondary, and we'll be set. Our offense should be better next season with the addition of the "Four Verticals" offense of Dirk Koetter, and of course Mike Nolan is a boss.
What does it all mean? It means we're close. Close isn't close enough, but if these new coaches do what they were brought in to do, close might turn into victory.
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Intangibles
I’ve always hated to hear people talk of intangibles. I’ve always believed more in talent, x’s and o’s, and plain luck. But looking at these two teams…the Falcons should be every bit as good as these guys on paper, maybe even slightly better. I don’t have a better explanation. The Giants finish plays, finish drives, finish games. They are polar opposites to us in the sense that they get complacent and stumble against lesser teams (2 losses to the Redskins), but thrive on the biggest stages against the best opponents. Call it what you will, but I hope our new coaches and/or new players can bring it here.
by ChardeeMacDennis on Feb 7, 2012 3:37 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly.
Green for you.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's so funny to hear you say...
“They are polar opposites to us in the sense that they get complacent and stumble against lesser teams (2 losses to the Redskins), but thrive on the biggest stages against the best opponents.”
Because that used to describe us, at a lower level. It’s interesting to note (aside from the fact that I’ve apparently got more years of angst as a Falcon fan) that we’ve put together a recent history of winning the games we’re supposed to win. That’s huge, and it gives me some confidence that we’re not that far away. We’re good, but not great. But we’re just good-not-great in a slightly different way than the Giants. Ergo, if we maintain our new-found propensity to win the games we should, and get up to win a few games we shouldn’t, we’re there! The good news is that when you’re at a level of making the playoffs consistently (and I think 3 of 4 qualifies), you’re within striking distance.
Damn, it’s easy to wax optimistic in the off-season, isn’t it?
so if the 2011 Giants and Falcons joined forces...
The ’72 Dolphins would have company?
totally agree, but...
“We just need to follow the blueprint of the Giants and get stacked on the defensive line” is easier said than done.
Aside from hoping that guys like Sidbury/Biermann step up, do yall know of any serious plans the birds have to improve the D Line??
by TheHammer58 on Feb 7, 2012 3:38 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It may come in the form of Nolan's D
Nolan likes to mix things up, which can cater to our strengths (our LBs).
Our pass rush may not be the best, but if we can run some exotic blitzes that use our best defensive players, it doesn’t have to be. We can get pressure that way and play a Steelers-style defense that brings the heat on every down.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Ledbetter
Nolan likes to mix things up, which can cater to our strengths (our LBs).
Ledbetter, AJC Falcon beat writer, said actually Nolan’s D features DBs rather than LBs.
Never heard of such, go figure, but that is what he said.
He probably meant that
because he blitzes, Nolan depends on solid DBs who can handle WRs, TEs and RBs on their own.
You made me defend DOL…I need a shower…
defend DOL or shower?
Dont cloud the issue with facts!
Or both...
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
That goes to the FO
Have to get more playmakers on this team. Thats the big difference between us and the giants. The Giants lost because they made too many mistakes. We won because we made few mistakes. The first one is easier to overcome but when you have to play near perfect to beat good teams your going to have bumps in the road. Elite teams have the talent to play sub par against good teams and still win. Good coaching can only go so far you have to have talent.
by pierre02 on Feb 7, 2012 11:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I appreciate the positive
but did you watch the game. Giants OLine, RBs, and most importantly QB were much better then ours. On the D side, their line is so much better it is laughable, Lbs are probably a push and I’ll just throw in the DBs as a push as well.
24 – 2 isn’t close and what is more concerning is they have a tendency to play poorly in big games especially Ryan which is extremely concerning.
Since we were ousted from the playoffs two years running by the eventual SB champ, unfortunately in a non-competitive game, there kinda is two schools of thought.
One is, and I believe the author’s, since they won the SB, we really are closer then we think. The other is, we didn’t come close to beating those guys, and we are not as close as most think.
Unless TD can pull a bunch of FAs out of his, eh, hat, I think we will be disappointed over the next few years for those that think we are close.
No, I drove 200 miles (4 hours) starting at 6 am that day
because I wanted to plant flowers in my apartment complex’s garden.
Coaching was a big part of our problem. We have the players to make it happen.
I don’t think their RBs are better than Turner (and that’s saything something because I have been somewhat against Turner lately) but their utilization of their RBs is/was infinitely better than ours, and that’s the difference. And of course, that falls on coaching.
Same goes for our DBs. Everyone knows Grimes is great, but he was utilized pretty well. What about Dunta? Soft zone isn’t his game, but that was BVG’s game, and Dunta suffered for it. That, again, falls on coaching.
Discipline (Coaching) wins before talent in the NFL.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, I drove 200 miles (4 hours) starting at 6 am that day
Ooh, well mercy, you poor thing. Did you get a sausage biscuit? Did you get a headache? Did you have someone to talk to? I hope the flowers went well, and I really don’t know what your point is. Please expound.
I really don’t think you have a clue what you are talking about. Per your post, we have a bunch of pass rushers, cover DBs, RBs and I guess Olinemen just waiting to be unleashed by the new coaching staff. Maybe so, hell, I hope so, but I don’t think so.
“Discipline (Coaching) wins before talent in the NFL” – No chief, it takes both.
by Whopper Dawg on Feb 7, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Great coaching makes good teams great
while poor coaching can ruin any talent. I don’t think Caleb is saying we had great players everywhere. He’s saying what talent we did had was misused and we still won 10 games. There are holes that need to be filled.No one disputes that. We were also hurt badly by the lack of a preseason. Boudreau’s OL scheme took average to above average talent and made them work as a unit. The whole was better than the sum of it’s parts. They didn’t get to become a unit because of the lockout. Teams with stars on the OL weren’t hurt as much because talent will beat out no coaching (training) any day. Our lack of a pass rush was disturbing. While I do think we need better talent on the DL, we all accept that Abe and Babs are beasts. Peters looks really good and Edwards has been average here but has been sucessful elsewhere. Imagine what the sack numbers would have looked like if we didn’t play a soft zone 85% of the game!
Would we have been better on offense if we actually used our #3 WR? Thrown screens to Quizz? Actually handed off to Snelling 10-12 times a game especially when he was on the field with Turner…The fact is both coordinators were good at making poor talent into a good team. They weren’t able to adapt to having good players.
Let's see
1) No, chicken biscuit.
2) No.
3) No.
4) They were gorgeous. Red tulips look great in the snow.
Everyone in the NFL has talent, but not every coach can provide the best discipline, so it stands to reason that since everyone in the NFL can play ball, the best-coached ones should be better than the ones that aren’t as well coached.
While, obviously, talent levels differ, the Patriots lack of big names should show you why that statement is correct. They’re perennial contenders with late round picks. Either they’re incredibly lucky, or their coaches are some of the best. It’s a safe assumption that it’s the latter.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
They were gorgeous. Red tulips look great in the snow.
Did you take a picture? How is the needle point coming?
I said it took both chief.
“Everyone in the NFL has talent,”
To say everyone has equal talent in the NFL is, well, I’ll be nice, naive.
“They’re perennial contenders with late round picks. Either they’re incredibly lucky, or their coaches are some of the best. "
Certainly their coaches are, remember I said it took both, but their GM is not too shabby either = personnel. Look at the two TEs they picked up in 2010, both of which are better than any TE we have and we have known TG is on a one year contract since he started. One of which was taken in the 4th round.
It takes both, and apparently you think we have the folks but didn’t have the coaching. OK, good for you. I will wait for the pass rushers, DBs, Oline, QB and RBs to come flashing to the surface next year. I would LOVE to see it.
What do you think about mums? Good or no?
by Whopper Dawg on Feb 8, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
"To say everyone has equal talent in the NFL is, well, I’ll be nice, naive."
While, obviously, talent levels differ…
Say what you want to say, think what you want to think, but there is a method to my madness.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 8, 2012 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
I know you have issues with TD...
but he came from the very system you’re talking about and his is one of the best GM’s the Falcons have ever had. You can be in denial about it all you want but there is some very solid “drafted” talent on this team and previous coaching did not get what they could have with it.
I only have one move the TD has made that I would question really…that is paying Dunta the kind of money he did to play in a system not suited to his talents. Hopefully Nolan rights that ship but it’s not like we can get the previous money/years back from Dunta!!
No, I didn’t like the JJ trade either but it is done and I am confident it will bare fruit. He is a talented kid with a good head and knowledge beyond his young years for the game and his position.
Last thing, I don’t believe Caleb actually used the word “equal” when referring to talent of teams across the league. I think he just meant, well, talent in general…they wouldn’t be with their perspective teams if they were not talented players. Now, what each coaching staff does with that talent is another story altogether and our previous coaches failed to do that…not "miserably" but failed none the less!!
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
" Per your post, we have a bunch of pass rushers, cover DBs, RBs and I guess Olinemen just waiting to be unleashed by the new coaching staff. Maybe so, hell, I hope so, but I don’t think so."
Review 2010 SF 49ers vs 2011 SF 49ers. See also 2010 Houston Texans defense vs. 2011 Houston Texans defense.
Each team had rookie and FA contributers. However, I don’t think you can pin the majority of their remarkable turn around solely on players. In fact, without coaching changes, I think we’re looking at a 7-9 49ers team and a 9-7 Texans team in 2011.
Consider this, when we watched Falcons games this past season, we we’re complaining constantly about our scheme and play calls on both sides of the balls. Sure, we had specific players on both sides of the ball (Sam Baker on O and Decoud on D) that we screamed at our televisions about, but we don’t sit around verbally eviscerating our roster as a bunch of talentless hacks. We generally feel like we have the talent to succed. That is why there were hallelujahs state wide when both coordinators left town. We absolutely need to improve the roster, especially in the trenches. That said, we now have a world class defensive coordiantor and an offensive coordiantor who isn’t named Mularkey. Can you seriously say you don’t believe those two won’t get better results out of the respective squads next year?
I have no
idea how good those coordinators will be. I know both former coordinators should have been running schemes that Smith and TD wants. If they weren’t then you have to question the entire organization.
I am not saying teams can’t improve under a new direction they can, but it is rare you get a new direction under the same HC. Maybe we will.
Obviously I think we have many more personnel problems than you do. Sometimes the horses aren’t in the corral.
I think scheming played a big part in those losses as well
Yes we need better line play period.
Better QB play by Eli – again see better line play above. As I was watching the Super Bowl…I was like I would LOVE to see how Matt would do with that much time to throw. Most of the “elite” QBs have an elite line period. Not to say they aren’t great QBs…but the line plays more of a part than people know. Saw Brady literally have 5 – 6 sec on some downs even against that pass rush.
No passrush – This has to get fixed by scheme or personnel or both. I think Van Gorder played that zone because he was afraid our personnel just didn’t match up on any given Sunday against good teams. Problem is that gives good QBs even MORE time to exploit weaknesses. We couldn’t generate a pass rush with our front 4 alone. So why not play more press coverage and bring 5 or 6? Only BVG knows. Nolan should fix that lack of aggressiveness / vanilla scheme and put opposing QBs on their butt more.
Offensive playcalling sucked last year period – Every team has weaknesses (esp in the age of the salary cap). With that said GREAT coaches put the personnel they have in positions to get the best out of their strengths. Mularkey is not a GREAT coach. He’s a good coach…but not a Great one. We did not offset our passblocking problems with schemes to help hide that period. We played not to lose instead of to win. Hopefully Koetter will fix that problem. That and a 3 down back.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
by dr3dd1ne on Feb 7, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd be willing to give Quizz a chance at more playing time.
but I’m not an NFL coach.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 7, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Quizz needs to make some blocks in pass protection.
He’ll get an opportunity to play more snaps when he proves himself as a blocker.Hopefully a full offseason will help him in that regard.
Most of the blame
is not in the players, it is how they were utilized. The Giants played to the strengths of their players, we played to the mental ideal our coaches thought of instead of to what our players could actually do. Think Ryan is bad? How many catches were on sitting patterns? I cant begin to tell anyone how upset I would get when I would see our receivers turn on their routes and sit for the ball. It wasnt an accuracy thing because they would turn and the ball would meet them as they turned. We have White and JJ and HD that should have been led in their routes instead of having them essentially play a stop and go and let the receivers make the YAC. We had a offensive game plan that was so predictable that people who never watched our birds play could predict a play by the 3rd qtr. Hmm, 1 back set, 2 TE’s? O, let me guess…run off center? Screen? Isnt that what keeps the skeeters out? On D we played zones so soft that a tub of parkay could catch a pass on 3rd and 18 and get a 1st down. D-line stunts? No, performing stunts is against the players contracts, right? Even though I think the stunts in their contracts involve things like riding a skateboard. Sure, lets do a DB blitz but when we do that, make sure to drop Abe into coverage. And the list goes on…
Dont cloud the issue with facts!
Coaching
I believe the team will be better defensively next year. Even with the losses of key personnel, I feel Nolan is the right fit at the right time for the defense. We may not have the pieces in place to be dominant, but given this years draft and next years, 2 years of free agency I think he can mold this defense into an elite bunch of guys.
The offense will be better as well, one year under the belt to mesh together, a new offensive coordinator who will not be so predicable with his play calling. So hell yeah…Of course the Falcons can get it done. I’m truly looking forward to the next 2 months which are going to be key. They will define which direction they plan on going in the future. Free agency, and the draft should determine the Redbirds future.
Coaching wins championships!
by Edgecrusher211 on Feb 7, 2012 6:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
completely off topic
8,000 Butterfingers we’re dropped in Copley square to welcome home Wes Welker…
Coaching wins championships!
thus the life of the NFL
you can catch 100 balls but you drop just one…
know what you believe in and why you believe in it
So basically all we have to do is turn the two weakest parts of our team into strengths and hope Matt Ryan has become capable of consistently hitting receivers running a vertical route?
Great.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
Trying to seem optimistic..but
Peyton Manning is out there lol…
Coaching wins championships!
by Edgecrusher211 on Feb 7, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
I think that...
That is a strategy most people would try. Hahah. I think one thing nobody talked about was Smitty. He should’ve went for the FG’s or at least did something different than a QB sneak. If we would have got those points, the game COULD have went completely different.
"The only person who has took more shots to the head than Tito Ortiz is his wife."
by that_falcon_fan on Feb 7, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
we did lose the 2 weakest parts of our team
They are now in Auburn and JAX.
Dont cloud the issue with facts!
i just have a strange feeling
That both offense but especially the defense underperformed under our coordinators, with predictable schemes and misusing/mismangaging players talents (as you can see how come players like JA98 and Chris Houston seems to excel on other teams.
Dunta Robinson seems so elite with the Texans that their pass defense was atrocious the first year without him, yet it seems like he’s lost and underachieved on the Falcons.
I have a feeling Nolan will figure out how to get this defense to it’s potential, but it might take a season or two, so don’t expect any immediate success.
I’m more concerned about Koetter, he’s more of a mystery meat guy.
Yet, coordinators tend to do well in their first year on a new team.
Caleb I to like your dad believe the D-line and O-line
Are the key to elite teams. The teams with 4 bad ass D-lineman can do so much more with other personal. Maybe that’s why BVG played so much zone, not a consistent pass rush. O-line same thing. Get 4 or 5 passblocking/runblockinging machines. Imo 2 badass O/D lines would make even mediocre players better. With all the new personal joining the team. Im still taking it one game at a time. Hope everyone jells and plays team ball. Playoffs would be nice but I’d settle for another winning season. Here’s to kicking ass one game at a time. Oh! Always listen to your father.
by Grey Rider on Feb 7, 2012 9:57 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I was just thinking about this
The giants are similiar to us. I always thought Matt was closer to Eli than Peyton. Sometimes he makes bone headed plays but then he takes his team down the field in 11 secs for a game winning field goal. MR will continue to mature and Dirk should help him alot.
I think Smitty is close to coughlin as well. I think Smitty loses this team sometimes. Sometimes they play their heart out then they let their arch rival break a 20+ yr record against them. We have the coordinators in place to go on a run in the post season. Smitty just has to get this team focused at the right time. Something whether it be the first ring for a losing franchise or win the last SB before the world ends has to motivate them.
If MR can become Matty Ice of old and keep his mistakes down. We could be getting our ring in the next 2-3 years.
by pierre02 on Feb 7, 2012 10:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Agree completely
It’s easy to see Coughlin as a “great” coach – and winning 2 SuperBowls puts him in the conversation – but people forget that he also coached teams that had a tendency to collapse at the end of the season. Hell – they almost did it this season, except they did it at the mid-way point instead of at the end.
Success is internally determined and externally executed.
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