Don't Expect The Falcons To Franchise Brent Grimes
One of the great debates of the 2012 off-season is the future of Brent Grimes. Almost no one denies that he's an excellent cornerback and a good dude. What we all want to know is whether the Falcons will retain him or he'll walk.
I'm responding directly to the talented Jamie Kelly at Blogging Dirty, who made the argument that Grimes is the only Falcon deserving of the tag and that the Falcons should/probably will use the $10.6 million franchise tag on Grimey. I have disagreements with both those points, but more so with the latter than the former. Still, you need to go read Jamie's post, because it's a thoughtful argument for Grimey.
Here's where Kelly and I differ.
- I think $10.6 million is a lot to tie up in a cornerback, particularly when you're paying Dunta Robinson almost $6 million. I know that Grimes is more deserving of that money, but when you have some young talent at the position, tying up nearly $17 million in two dudes isn't necessarily the best use of your cap space.
- Brent Grimes is due for—and in my mind, will be gunning for—a big payday. Put yourselves in Grimes' shoes for a moment. He's a young father and husband who has busted his ass to go from Shippensburg to Atlanta, and once there, to go from a practice squad player to one of the best zone cover cornerbacks in the NFL. For all that work, he's repeatedly been denied a lucrative long-term deal from Atlanta for reasons that make sense from the front office perspective but have to rankle for Grimey. This is the first time he's truly been an unrestricted free agent, he's in the prime of his career and he wants to land a big deal that will take care of him for the rest of his life.
Given that, do you really think he'll be happy to take a one-year tender? I seriously doubt it. Couple that with the rumors swirling around earlier this off-season and the Falcons have to be thinking long and hard about using the tag on a guy who may not want to return to Atlanta and certainly will not want to return for anything less than a long-term deal. If they don't use the tag, though, they have to know there's a good chance a team like the Buccaneers will outbid them. It's a tough situation. - We don't know how well Grimes will fare in Mike Nolan's defense, which will probably feature more aggressive scheming and a heavier lean toward man coverage. I think he'd be fine, personally, but he may be slightly less effective and that might give the Falcons pause.
- The Falcons just don't use the franchise tag under Thomas Dimitroff. It's a potent cap hit to take for a single year for almost any player, and $10.6 million is a lot to put into a corner. Unless they believe they literally cannot afford to lose Grimes, I can't see them bucking that trend.
I truly hope the Falcons find a way to retain Grimes, because he's one of my favorite players and he's been an incredible cornerback for the last few years. But I have a feeling if they do, it won't be by using the franchise tag.
What do you all think?
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Excellent article Dave
I agree, I don’t see ATL tagging BG unless they trade DR, which isn’t a likely scenario. BG is a great DB but ATL cannot tie up that kind of money into the DB’s unless they don’t resign some high salary guys and replace them with back ups. One scenario would be to let Abe walk, replace him with Sidbury/Matthews/Bierman and tag Grimes. I’m not sure the D would be taking a step forward in that case.
There is some good young talent at DB on team – Franks, Owens, Walls and it’s time to give them a chance to step up in Nolans D.
by mwalex on Feb 18, 2012 8:56 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Whatever We Gotta Do
We R Crazy If We Let Grimes, Abraham Of Loften Go! Id Cut Half The Defense Before You Let Them Ride!!! Get Real Folks!
How can you say that
without even having a feel for Nolan’s D? Past performance in no guarantee at this point.
What up, all?
Though I’d get back into the mix here. Been away a minute.
mwalex, good to see you’re still spot on. Any scenario in which the Falcons tag (and perhaps even sign to a long term deal) BG is likely going to be taking a step back for this DEF. I think everyone’s in universal agreement that Grimey deserves to get PAID, but it likely won’t be here.
I’m assuming there’s going to be a similar post about Curtis Lofton, and I think that is a debate that will see a lot of differing opinions.
Little bit of a different spin on Lofton, but you're right, that post is coming
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I agree.
If they were willing to pay Grimes that amount to tag him they’d sign him long term.
Bigger Needs Elsewhere…
I believe (hope!, beg!) the emphasis this offseason will be on the line of scrimmage and becoming more physical. If so, then it’s a bad time to be a 5-10, 180lb cornerback. The cap dollars would be better spent on the O and D lines in that order. The Comrade has been decent at finding experienced free agent corners at a bargain (e.g. Foxworth, B. Williams, Hayden). I look for more of the same…
A Priority – LT, RG
B Priority – Pass Rush, Space Eater DT
C Priority – Can’t justify $10.6 for a C priority. Bring in a bargain vet free agent to compete w/Owens/ Franks/Walls and wish Grimes all the best in his future endeavors.
by LifeLongBirdFan on Feb 18, 2012 9:19 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I agree 100% with Mr. BirdFan
I’ve nothing to add to the post.It says it all.
i like ur logic
we need the that B priority BAD,I’m really hoping nolan gets that NT from the fins up here
You've an excellent point about our FO being reluctant to use the tag
I know they used it on Koenen after the year we set an NFL record lowest return yardage allowed on ST, since it was really low for a punter.
I don’t think Grimes will see the tag; if he’s willing to sit out the playoff game even though he’s able to play, who’s to say he won’t sit out the first 10 games of the season, sign the tag, and then walk after 10 mil for 6 games?
Abe might see the tag just because you have to maintain your pass rush, and you don’t want to sign him long term. But even then, this FO has likely been planning for this situation and won’t use the tag on anyone.
Areopagite's comments
I have read enough about Brent being able to play and not doing so, to those who don’t know what actually happened shouldn’t assume, Brent would never just sit out a game, and the people that know aren’t writing about it. I, personally think he played too soon after surgery. It would be nice if you made comments that were true for once.
by Debilah on Feb 18, 2012 10:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
agreed
People can say all they want but until they have had their knees invaded by way of a ’scope they will never know. The biggest hurdle is getting your stability/mobility back and even from a simple scope that can take a long time and since every knee heals differently, no one can say (especially a fan) that he was ready. Only 2 people truly know if the player is ready and that is Brent and the Dr.
And Debilah, my old computer crashed and I lost your email address, can ya resend it please?
Dont cloud the issue with facts!
where did thus sit out rumor come from
all i know they where the moring of the game that he was a go then at game time he wasnt
Of all the people on this forum I'd believe about him
You’d be at the top. I take it back; I certainly don’t have any inside information about the situation. I, like many, were disappointed that he couldn’t play, especially after every report (for what it’s worth) said he was cleared to play and would be active for the game. People put two and two together, and I certainly take your word for it.
That being said, in claiming that all my comments are untrue, is there even one example other than this comment that you would take issue with? Even in this case, speculating about situations without all the necessary information is what sport fans do. We don’t have family members with insider information, we have two eyeballs, a brain, a little too much time on our hands, and an unnatural attachment to the greatest sport ever conceived. That’s the nature of these forums, and calling people out for never making comments that are true, well, is even more speculative then the comment I made.
by TheAreopagite on Feb 18, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Areopagite
I try not to speculate about any player and I love football and watch all games, whether Brent is playing or not. I do not make public comments about a player even though I may know the truth. Also, I didn’t call people out, I just responded to you talking about my son.
Tagging Abe
doesn’t make any sense to me. He likes ATL, and by most accounts, wants to stay in the A. At his age, I think he’d be willing to sign a 2-3 year for a reasonable amount. Give him a good signing bonus so that you if ATL needs to drop him next year the cap hit won’t be significant. TD really flexed his muscles last offseason and signed some players to some great bargains. I expect that to continue with Abe.
Good to see you back KMarch
If Abe signed a 2-3 year deal, and was cut in the second year, the signing bonus (which is prorated over the length of the contract) would be applied the year he was cut. So of a 6 million signing bonus on a 3 year deal, 2 million would go in the first year (along with the salary), and then the remaining 4 mil would be the cap hit in the second year if he was cut. That’s a lot of dead cap space to eat, so if anything they might tie the contract to playing time, incentives, option or roster bonuses, or some other way to avoid a big hit if they wanted the flexibility to cut him.
You are right about the veteran signings (like Hayden); I would expect that if someone can get it done at a reasonable price, I think Dimitroff can do it.
by TheAreopagite on Feb 18, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Learn something every day
but you are exactly right, that wouldn’t be the way to go.
So, if we bump the signing bonus (for a 2 year contract) down to $2.5 – 3 mil, it still might not be a bad deal if they end up having to cut him before 2013. The contract itself could be interesting b/c although we’d surely take him back for around $4 mil/year (he might/definitely want more than that). Although, if TD finds himself getting in the 6-7 mil/year range for Abe, he might as well see what the markets for Mario Williams and Cliff Avril are.
I would suspect they would try to guarantee more of his salary
Same cap hit with a little more risk to the team, but it is as enticing as a good signing bonus without the danger in future years (since it is guaranteed, but not if the player is cut by so and so date).
I was also interested to find that Abe is still grading out as the top pass rusher in their advanced metrics over the last four year period (not for each year, but over that period). He’s still getting plenty of pressure, though everyone is knocking him for fewer sacks. After all, he is our pass rush, and I think our opponents would be happy to see him go.
by TheAreopagite on Feb 19, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Depressing post.
Love Grimes.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Feb 18, 2012 9:40 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
On The Bright Side...
…I do believe Grimes will be justly rewarded for his persistence, hard work, and performance. It’s just that unfortunately it may happen somewhere other than ATL. Tough business…
by LifeLongBirdFan on Feb 18, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
It is, but he will be rewarded
And that’s really the biggest point here, in some ways. I like to say that I root for laundry above all else, but it’s hard to argue with the notion that Grimes deserves the biggest deal he can get. He’s worked for it.
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by Dave Choate on Feb 18, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
especially
after all the hard work he has put in. He went from NFL Europe with no foreseeable chance at the real deal to a bench warmer in the NFL to a star. That took a ton of work and time. There are a lot of Falcons that need to copy that and if they did…damn we would be on fire!
Dont cloud the issue with facts!
I think we can all agree on that
He deserves his payday since he’s effectively been underpaid for years here. Back when they had the fund to help compensate underpaid players based on total play counts, he was consistently at the top of the list.
by TheAreopagite on Feb 18, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Effectively underpaid for years?
You think he deserves a big pay day from what he showed in 08 and 09?
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
A few good, general rules
If you’re being paid the league minimum, and starting nearly every snap, you’re being underpaid.
If you’re being backed up by people making more money than you, you’re being underpaid.
Ergo, ….
by TheAreopagite on Feb 18, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Can't argue with you on that theory
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
I developed it while working
It works pretty well for life to, since the ‘salary cap’ for most companies is pretty poorly managed!
by TheAreopagite on Feb 19, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Related Questions...
1. Any chance being reunited with his college coach energizes President Jackson to step up to fill the void at RG? (A "yes" here could free up some funds for Grimes.)
2. Anyone else believe Nolan’s fondness of the 3-4 will translate into a need/desire for more mass at the DT position (Babs, Peters and Jerry are all sub-300lb) even if we stay with a 4-3 base D? (A "yes" here makes funds for Grimes even less likely.)
by LifeLongBirdFan on Feb 18, 2012 9:42 AM EST reply actions
34 speculation should end.
I believe any speculation of an immediate swap to a 34 scheme is misguided. Nolan will be unlikely to make immediate wholesale changes to the base 43 scheme. Over the longhaul??? I agree we will see a slow progression in that direction. We don’t have a body big enough to play NT.
If we were to move that direction, oddly enough, our favorite punching bag of old (JA98) may be an inexpensive UFA and was not bad in Indy’s system. I oft wonder how much his lack of production can be attributed to BVGs inept coaching.
by bdub712 on Feb 18, 2012 10:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
All that said
Why pay Grimey 10mil? He deserves to get paid, but, as much as I want the Falcons to keep him around, he is not worth that kinda cash. He’s 28? 3 yrs, 21 million, I think would be fair for his performances and contributions to this organization.
by bdub712 on Feb 18, 2012 10:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed. That's Why...
there WAS NO 3-4 speculation in my post. I simply asked if Nolan might prefer to have some larger DTs on the roster.
by LifeLongBirdFan on Feb 18, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
all they need is NT
we could have some 3-4 looks with the guys we already have I hope we do mix it up Ive always liked the idea of playing both we need somthing for #9 in NO
Let Grimes walk
If we re-sign Hayden and let Franks/Owens battle for the CB2 spot and have Walls waiting in the wings, we’d have a pretty deep CB group. Some team will throw a huge sum of money at Grimes and we have much more pressing needs than CB.
Generally agreed...
i think it is universally agreed that GrimeTime will price himself out of our price range. Being honest, if PrimeTime wasn’t worth the money to the organization then Brent will soon be missed as well. I know, I know, completely different owner, different management team… but as a fan of ALL Atlanta based sports teams, i have to openly admit… the more things change, the more they stay the same… we are a cheap sports town.. EVERY organization is looking for a contract hook up… BRENT IS GONE…. LETS FOCUS ON FREE AGENTS AND DEPENDING ON THE DRAFT TO CONTINUE TO BRING IN YOUNG TALENT.
Be good and be good to yourself -MASE-
by Ma$e on Feb 18, 2012 10:13 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
would like to get him back but if not
Courtland Finnagen? $imilar to grimes size probably more physical. Or Ladarious Webb? He really stepped him game up last season and is a ball hawk.
by DEMBIRDZCUZ! on Feb 18, 2012 12:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Don't forget Prime Time was a two sport player at the time
and refused to make football his priority sport.
It helps Atlanta
that there are a lot of quality free agents at CB. They could potentially resign him. It’s not like he is the top one available and is going to get a huge payday. I can’t see him getting the money that he wants unless he signs with a team that has huge cap room.
If he's not the top available in your opinion,
who is?
Finnegan and Carr are both pretty good too, but neither is as consistent as Grimes.
Grimes is the #1 CB available according to every FA ranking I've seen
I don’t think I’ve seen a single free agent master list where Grimes wasn’t ranked as the #1 CB available this FA period. Grimes will be getting paid this off season.
Grimes, Abe and Spoon
Best players on the D, the others, meh. And two of the three are leaving in all likelihood. Best corner and only pass rusher out the door. Not sure that is a recipe for success.
Hope the “young talent” at DB steps up better than the “young talent” at Oline did last year.
Our Oline was
great?
OK?
poor?
And when Dahl was let go last year, the word on this board was not to worry, TD has stockpiled all this young talent, we won’t miss him. And low and behold, Baker regressed, Dahl was gone, and the line sucked.
Now, the board is following the same logic with Abe and Grimes, play the young talent, time for them to shine. Maybe so, I just hope it works out better than last year.
Note that I railed against Dahl leaving last year and do the same now with Grimes and Abe.
The fact of the matter is the Oline and Dline are in bad need of repair, and on the the DLine that is in spite of a 1 and a 3 and a big money FA.
Note that interestingly enough, that when TD and MS rolled into town, they said they were dedicated to building the team from the inside out, we have to win the LOS. Remember that?
Now, four years later, our two weakest points are the OLine and DLine – please TD supporters ’splain that??
by Whopper Dawg on Feb 18, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
the young cb s
franks and owens played alot better toward the end of the season do none of u fans remember any of that at least we have seen these guys play as of late cant say the same
for the players on the Oline what bothers me most is the way the Oline played at the first of the season and the coaches didnt see we had a problem they just put them out ther anyway
The issue was not the "young talent " on the OL
stick with your point. Baker is not “young talent” and neither is Clabo, whom both stunk. Svitek came in, was “young talent” and played better than Baker. Reynolds did not solidify the RG position when he replaced Dahl, that is true.
I remember that
That people said we could afford to lose 2 of our line last off season and be ok because of the youngsters. So they look good in practice or the preseason against other backups. So what. If someone is proven, you do what you can to keep them.
Dont cloud the issue with facts!
The biggest reason you think you're right Whopper
is that our OLine wasn’t very good 2 years ago, either. Of course, the easiest explanation for the differential b/n the OLine this year and two years ago is Dahl, and so that’s why people think it’s correct.
However, that’s far from the only reason our OLine struggled. Yes, RG was a trouble spot for sure, but let’s also look at what the offense was trying to do differently (especially early in the season): long passes. As Ryan was getting closer and closer to getting killed, they altered the OFF gameplans and as a result, the OLine ended up being average in terms of pass-blocking for the entire season. They were one of the poorest run-blocking units, and that, from memory, was not a huge decline from two years ago. The entire OLine is (and has been) performing at a mediocre to poor level for at least 2 if not 3 years.
The entire OLine is (and has been) performing at a mediocre to poor level for at least 2 if not 3 years.
And last year was a low point, you have to agree. The reason they altered the game plans was the OLine sucked. Losing Dahl was a big part of it. The “youngsters” being mediocre to poor was another. Baker retreating into whatever he is now is another.
The ONLY pass rusher we have was here when TD rolled into town four years ago.
And none of that answers the question I posed, which was what happened to the TD/MS mantra we are building from the inside out and have to win the LOS. Sure doesn’t look like we are being successful with that.
by Whopper Dawg on Feb 19, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Well, we all know TD isn't your ideal candidate for the GM
You’re awful critical of a GM that has done more for this franchise than any of his predecessors. I also can’t take that hatred seriously because you think bringing in Hines Ward was a good idea (especially when you’re so strongly against every other FA signee). TD is far from perfect, as all GMs are, but you can’t argue with his track record right now. I’m just as disappointed that the picks TD has used on OL/DL (which are plenty btw) haven’t all been gems, but that’s the reality of the NFL Draft. Furthermore, all of them are still young and the book shouldn’t be closed just yet.
TD isn't your ideal candidate for the GM
The choice was Moss, Owens or Hines. I would take Hines in a NY minute. You can take Moss or Owens. If that somehow discredits me in your mind, I am certainly more than OK with that.
If you like TD fine. Anyone worth a grain of salt would be better than most of the Falcon’s prior administrations. And he has done some good things, and Mr. Blank has been enormously generous with his check book. But my eyes don’t glaze over and I don’t murmur “In TD we trust” as many on this board do.
This team right now is not a top ten team. We played 7 teams with winning records last year and lost to 5 of them by the average score of 27 to 13. We are not close, and like it or not, much of that has to do with personnel.
by Whopper Dawg on Feb 19, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I feel ya on the in we trust
Be glad to see how they work all this out during this offseason,I think we are better off with TD than Rich Mckay but u have a valid point
How soon we forget
Listen, before I say this, I want to state how huge of a Grimes fan I was in 2010. Dude showed tremendous work ethic and is a testament to true will and dedication. With that said, Grimes has only had one excellent season. He wants to be paid like a guy who has had quite a few excellent seasons. There’s no way I see Grimes regressing to what he was in 08 & 09 but there were times this year where I did begin to question his focus level. There was a string of about four games where he dropped some of the easier interceptions he’ll ever see.
As someone mentioned earlier, he’s just not high on the priority list. I have to disagree with you about Nolan’s scheme Dave. I think Grimes would get slaughtered at the line by the likes of Calvin Johnson and Fitzgerald.
He’s a good player, yes, but let him get that payday elsewhere.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
We don't have to continue to settle Atlanta. We're better than that.
by DopeFalcons on Feb 18, 2012 2:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Love Grimes
but I’m afraid he’ll end up somewhere else next year. I don’t want that to be the case (he’s one of my favorite players) but we have more pressing needs such as offensive linemen.
I think, if D. Franks hadn’t shown he was capable of playing at a pretty solid level, we might make a greater effort to resign Grimetime, but I think Franks’s emergence might be sealing the deal.
Grimes is a great guy, plus any NFL player would tell you they would never sit a game out on purpose. You don’t get to the NFL just desiring money, you’ve gotta love the game, and anyone who loves the game wouldn’t dare sit out a single play if it were up to them.
Say what you want to say, think what you want to think, but there is a method to my madness.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 18, 2012 6:11 PM EST reply actions
at least someone else was watching franks thank you sir
I understand peoples concern over BG,but try to believe in Nolan if he thinks we can let him walk then let him walk one thing is forsure nolan knows his shit! and im glad he is here instead of spags
haha I'm actually proud of Franks
I thought he played well and was thrown into the game totally cold a few times this year. He’s shown he can cover pretty good receivers. Plus he’s from Oklahoma and they gave us Lofton so he’s got the pedigree too.
Plus we have Darrin Walls, who’s kinda a wildcard. I think he has some athletic ability, he’s just really raw. Walls is pretty tall for a DB I believe (6-1 range, I think) so he has potential. ((But then again, Grimes is listed at 5-10 which he probably isn’t even if he had football cleats on concrete, so who knows.))
Say what you want to say, think what you want to think, but there is a method to my madness.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 19, 2012 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
Caleb!
Plus he’s from Oklahoma and they gave us Lofton so he’s got the pedigree too.
You know better than that. Not saying you’re right in this instance, but under that logic every WR that ever suited up for Mississippi Valley State U would be in the NFL.
MVSU isn't a big-time school.
Therein lies the difference. It’s much more likely to get a good product from Oklahoma than MVSU, thus the pedigree statement.
Say what you want to say, think what you want to think, but there is a method to my madness.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Feb 19, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
I think you're still missing the point
if picking players was a simple as saying, “Oh, he went to a ‘big-time’ school like Alabama or Oklahoma, I can’t miss drafting him,” then a GM would have never been fired in the history of the NFL. You implied that b/c Franks went to OU and b/c we already had one good player from OU then Franks will be a solid player. I doubt that ever weighs heavily in war room decision-making on draft day.
I still think it would be a good idea to tag and trade him if we can/dont get a long term deal with him
That way we get something back for him. But i can see us letting him walk in FA.
"I'm about rings now"
~Arthur Blank
by CollegePark4Life on Feb 18, 2012 6:29 PM EST reply actions
Lets Tag Em And Trade Him
To the eagles for either nnamdi or asante lol
Brent Grimes will be hosting a camp this summer
If you are a Grimes fan, check out www.footballcamps.com. He will be hostin a camp for kids ages 7-18.
Brent Grimes for Free Safety?
Hasn’t Decoud been underperforming in coverage all year? That way we won’t lose our best pass defender for nothing
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
I would suggest reviewing the Franchise and Transition Tag rules
The Tag and Trade notion carries alot of risk beginning with the fact that the player can immediately sign the offer sheet.In that case the Tag cannot be rescinded and the Team is in the bind of trying to trade the Player along with the $10.6million he is owed.

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