The Cap Casualty Question
by Dave Choate on Jan 27, 2012 8:00 AM EST
in Falcons Talk
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PrintIf you haven't been following along with them, I suggest you go back and read James' "Peace Out Homie" series. He's taking a look at the Falcons' various free agents and examining their situations in a whimsical way. Yes, I said whimsical. You'll also want to check out what Jeff Schultz has written on the subject we're about to discuss.
Now that I've told you that, it's time to jump into this afternoon's discussion. Which Falcons—free agents or otherwise—are most likely to be cut or allowed to walk to save cap space. To get you started, here's a few possibilities:
- Sam Baker, who is owed about $3 million in 2012
- Dunta Robinson, who is owed about $6 million in 2012
- Brent Grimes, who will be looking for a (deserved) lucrative contract
- Ovie Mughelli, who also counts about $3 million toward the cap this year
Let's stoke the fires of discussion, my friends.
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I know you guys will probably spear me for this, but...
That Cox kid really impressed me. I say let Ovie go and give Cox the run. Sam Baker is a given, he’s gone I’m sure.
Now, the tough question is what to do with Grimey and Dunta. It all depends on the type of defense Nolan likes to play. To both have different strengths.
Another option would be to move DR to FS, let DeCoud walk, keep Grimey, and promote one of the other corners to repl Dunta.
Ehh, I don’t know. I trust the coaching staff will make the right decisions.
by FalconsFansincePrimetime on Jan 27, 2012 8:45 AM EST via mobile reply actions
What exactly impressed you about Mike Cox.
He’s no Ovie. MT33 lacked the holes to run through this year, which he really needs. Nope it’s damn near impossible to replace Ovie.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jan 27, 2012 8:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
As much as the Keutter (sp?) used his FB in Jacksonville
I don’t see this happening. What I see happening is Cox will be there until Ovie is ready
Exactly!! And I will add...
MT constantly had to find room outside to run and while actually doing well at it, it is not his style of running. Cox really was ineffective for what the previous style offense utilized the FB position for!!
Now could a scheme change benefit Cox and not Ovie…maybe but we will probably still have Turner and he will still need those holes opened up in the middle and Cox clearly isn’t the man to do it!!
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
by Blood_Talon on Jan 27, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
partially agreed
I am thinking the same for DR, but Grimes will want big $$, and frankly I don’t think he did much last year. Worked his butt off in 2010 to get a big contract, but settled for less. Let him explore the FA! DR could be great at FS and obviously free up space for another cornerback (Carlos Rogers, et al). Maybe even get a good one in draft. Franks can learn more, and Walls is a possibility too. Can’t be any worse than DR on the corner!
Ovie can be a later decision, after exploring trade of MT. I would like to see Koetter go with a two set back offense on any down. (Would work well for screens too, and would also allow chip blocks for MR2 protection) Again this depends on MT situation, and of course OL signings.
Dunta can nit, I'll give him that
But nothing else about his game indicates that he’ll be worth two pennies at free safety in the NFL.
I only saw Mike Cox in one play
It was an impressive run in the First New Orleans game.
Never saw him again.
He was severely underused.
by brotherbrown on Jan 28, 2012 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
It's obvious we will see sweeping changes.
I was listening to the radio and they were discussing our draft, it seems to me that they believe we really need to “get a starter” our first pick (53). Lots of folks on here are of the same opinion. It’s not that easy. What does make sense is free agency. Falcons and Arthur have been clear that they will build through FA this year so we will see a lot of folks walk to clear up space. Some of these guys are gone. We may be able to still get a star quality guy with our pick maybe a guard, TE or RB but our expectation of this draft needs to be toned down a bit. It’s better to have quantifiable products on the field this season rather then put our hope in the 53 pick. It would be nice if #53 becomes a starter this year but I see our success in FA.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jan 27, 2012 8:52 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm out of state, so I can't listen to much ATL sports talk radio,
but did they indicate that we intend to get someone who will start this year? Pretty interesting, as that almost assuredly means the OL. I’d like to draft a CB with our first pick, but Robinson and Franks seems to be the starting option at the moment.
by Sewanee Braves on Jan 27, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Atl sports radio
Download tunein radio from android apps.
Search for sports talk, 680 the fan. Or 790.
by Magellan55 on Jan 27, 2012 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Just downloaded it for my iPhone. Thanks guys!
But screw listening to sports talk, I’m gonna listen to that Antarctica folk station!
Not a good source of useful info
Atlanta Sports Talk Radio is a good place to consistently get the dumbest analysis of local sports that can he had anywhere.Nowhere can you get more sports analysis,that has been more wrong,more often,over more time than on 680 and 790 AM in Atlanta.
Some of the programs are fun and entertaining,with talented broadcasters and personalities.And I am a listener because of that.But,the analysis makes me want to kill myself.Anyone who is letting the Sports Radio analysis of the Falcons to substantially influence their opinions,is being led down the road to a thorough fantasy football understanding of the sport.
Trust your own eyeball test.Tape the games and watch them a second time.Not as a fan,but as your own analyst.Watch them a third time focusing on line of scrimmage play.Some plays you’ll want to see for a fourth or fith time.Others,you’ll watch part of the play over and over again until you cant take it anymore.
Remember that the objective of sports media is not thorough analysis and discussion of the local franchises.It is to establish the brand of on air celebrities and get ratings that lead to higher prices that they can charge for advertising.ESPN Football Analyst Orientation 101 says that most viewers have a short attention span for analysis that is any deeper than churning meaningless stat comparisons that are useless when viewed in a vacuum.
I’d love to get more of what some of the former coaches and players and veteran sports reporters have to offer.But,we’re not going to get it.It’s not what gets ratings.I’m ok with that.It just means we have to get it for ourselves.
We will only save $1million in cap space by cutting Dunta
According to Schultz. Even though he’s not great, the fact that the team won’t save much probably means he stays.
That's only because the remaining years of his signing bonus would be allocated to the 2012 cap
His 2013 (and 2014, and I believe 2015) cap hit would then be $0. I’m too lazy to look up his actual contract, but the savings would be better the following years.
by TheAreopagite on Jan 27, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Alot depends on what type of offense Koetter wants to run
If he’s going to heavily employ 4 verts and one back sets, then I can see them letting Ovie walk-especially given his age and the type of injury he’s coming back from. Sam Baker probably packed his bags right after the playoff loss.
We may need Ovie
I read somewhere that our run game was really hurt because we didn’t have Ovie blocking. He does take a bit of money but I’m not sure that letting him go gives us a lot more options.
We can’t let go of DR. Aside from the fact that I think he is a good athlete and playing zone wrecked his aggressive style of play, I don’t think we free up cap much space unless we get a trade for him and somebody else picks up his contract. Grimes is possibly the best zone FA CB this offseason and his ability was showcased because BVG had them play zone. If he had them play mostly man coverage, who knows, we might be griping about Grimes instead of Dunta. It’s unfortunate that their strengths are opposite. I think let Grimes walk and go after Cortland Finnegan. He won’t demand as much money as Grimes (maybe) and we would have two aggressive press corners.
No mention of Jabraham55? Let him walk and go after Mario Williams? Do we have any chance of making that happen?
Baker is a bust, let him go. Easy.
sign abe and super mario
Free up enough room to sign both DE’s. Edwards, gone! Like the Finnegan suggestion, but $$ might not be any better than Grimes, so this is a wash for $$, but Finnegan would work well in man to man.
My list
Sam Baker : Most likely he is gone. 3 M is too much for a backup LT.
Roddy White:Trade Bait,8 M in cap space.
MT: 5 Million,trade bait even if its swapping 2nd or 3rd round picks. Go to comitte RB’s like saints ran more effectively than MT.
Brent Grimes: He is most likely gone after sitting out of the playoff game.
Dunta: I might be in the minority here but he is not as bad as people make him out to be. He is not worth 57 M but he was our best CB last year as Grimes was hurt most of the season. The problem with DR is he was inconsistent at the beginning of the season. He did not give up a TD after week 10 and accounted for just 2TD whole season.
It's all about Process...
My two centinos (yes I know that's not a word)
Ovie – - – - –
Either Ovie or Snelling walk. Both can fill the same role but Snelling gives us more options for less imho. He can run, block, and catch. Ovie can catch and block. Snell will be cheaper unless someone signs him away by overpaying him. Savings = $3 million
Baker – - – -
Gone – Savings of $3 million. Svitek takes his spot. We fill another OT or Guard in Free agency.
Dunta – - – -
We either keep Dunta or Grimes. They could surprise me and keep both, but I think Dunta probably stays depending on what Grimes can get in free agency. Dunta will be the cheaper option probably and he’s actually good in press coverage which is what we’ll be playing more of in Nolan’s defense. Look for the young guys to have to step up. Believe Grimes was getting like $2.61 million last year. So that will be freed up.
Total estimated savings of: $8.61 million
That’s more than enough for a pretty darn good DE, safety, CB, or OL. Now the intriguing part is do we also let Abe go. That’ll be another $7 – 8 million freed up easy. Add that to the following:
Savings from above – $8.61 million
Abe – $8 million
Salary Cap space (estimated conservatively) – $26 million
Total blow money for 2012 offseason = $42.61
I look for a LOT of moves to be made by the Front Office this offseason. Hang onto your hats boys and girls! YEEHAW!
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Falcons Cap Space
Falcons have 96 M in cap space right now for 2012. This excludes all the FA like Abe,BG,TD etc. The only savings will come if you cut existing players before Feb or trade. The biggest hit from Cap Space comes from
Roddy White: 8 M
Matt Ryan:11 M
MT:5 M
DR:6 M
Ov:3 M
Sam Baker:3 M
The falcons right now have 24 M in cap space to sign their own FA or from outside. Some one from the above list need to let go if Falcons sign big name FA.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Jan 27, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
96 million cap space? or $96 million already spent toward the cap?
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
96 M counting towards the cap.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Jan 27, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I think my math above is going to be pretty accurate on what money we'll have to play with
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
But Falcons dont have 42 M to blow up.
They have 24 M right now unless existing players are cut or traded.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Jan 27, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Granted some of that will be absorbed keeping our FA...esp Lofton.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Read the assumptions above I laid it out
Cutting I mentioned frees $16.61 mill.
Cap space will be increased per Arthur Blank so estimated $26 mill
Equals (my estimate) $42.61
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Cap space increase?
I thought there would not be increase in 2012 but from 2013 where it is expected to 146 M.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Jan 27, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
That's what I thought too but that's not what Arthur said
In the presser he said they were looking at a cap increase. So we’ll see.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
That's correct
I think he told DLed that it would likely be $125M for 2012.
Not to mention there are also some cap credits you can apply in the first three years of the new CBA
I believe there are 3 of them that you can apply to three different player salaries. Since we didn’t bust out the cap last year I’m assuming those are still in play.
by TheAreopagite on Jan 27, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
30 M to spend in 2012
96/125 is counted towards cap which leave around 30 M . Thats not bad at all.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Jan 27, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
If Lofton gets a big bonus.
The Bonus will be counted in Multiple years against the cap space. The risk is if Lofton suddenly becomes a big bust. I guess he is the most reliable player to take a chance with Big bonus and lower salary.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Jan 27, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but I think our LBs will take a more active role in rushing the passer this year
I think that’ll increase his value even more (hard to believe) than he is now.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Bye Bye
*B. Grimes
J. Snelling
H. Douglas
E. Weems
*R. Kelly
*S. Baker
*J. Abraham
*P. Jerry
M. Peterson
*T. Decoud
K. Hayden
I’m almost 100% sure I’m right about at least seven of them.
Agreed
Of that list I say DeCoud, Douglas, and Snell stay. Douglas can return kicks thereby increasing his value. Only reason weems got a shot was Douglas getting hurt.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
I hope Snelling stays.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Jan 27, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
He is the most complete back we have until Quizz shows out.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
I too hope Snelling stays
but I think it may depend on what we do with Turner. I (like you) think we should shop Turner this offseason. 3rd leading rusher in the league has to bring back something decent right? Still has a few good years left, but I think we’re in the prime position to sell high. A 3 headed monster of Snelling/Quizz/FA or Draftee could definitely get the job done, and save us 2 mill or so in cap space (by my very rough calculations).
by Sewanee Braves on Jan 27, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
We're getting rid of R. Kelly?
Haters want to hate, lovers want to love, I don’t even want none of the above….
by TheAreopagite on Jan 27, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I think we keep DeCoud, Snelling, and Douglas.
Everybody else will be somewhere else.
And bye bye Biermann.
Of your list...
I see use keeping:
Douglas (although, rumors are he may be signed away by Jacksonville)
Jerry
Decoud
Peterson
Snelling
Grimes and Abraham will cost too much, not that Grimes wouldn’t be worth it but there would just be too much “cap” tied to the CB position and Abraham is going to start declining. While I think he will probably have a good year next year, he will probably want a multi-year deal and that is just too much of a risk at his age.
I am really indifferent about the rest of the list.
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
by Blood_Talon on Jan 27, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
My Guess...
STAYS:
Ovie (Cox is good but thank they well stick with Ovie if he is healthy)
Dunta (Nolan will do wonders with Dunta)
Decoud (Nolan will improve Decoud)
Biermann (Think he stays along with “missing link”)
Turner (Stays, but gets less snaps)
Weems (Special Teams MVP, according to Smith)
Lofton (MVP, if we pay anyone if needs to be Lofton)
McClure (one more year)
QUESTIONABLE:
Abraham (who will fill in when he goes…this is a problem)
Sanders (played well…)
Hayden (?)
Redman (something undisclosed happened with JPW…)
PROBABLY GONE:
Douglas (going somewhere he will actually be used)
Snelling (Ovie, Turner, Quizz should be plenty)
Baker (what can I say about Baker that hasn’t already been said. Bye!)
Grimes (will be missed)
Yes Dunta definitely stays
as much as I love me some Grimey, and his whole “improbable rise to the top” story, DR is much more suited for press-type coverage, which is what we are going to. (Did I mention, Yay?)
"And this here's the TV. Two hours a day, either educational or football, so you don't ruin your appreciation of the finer things." - H.I.
Doesn't this guy like to use 3 and 4 receiver sets?
I’m not so sure Douglas will be gone
That's true, I hope he stays
But….there are actually rumors on the web that Jacksonville is looking into Douglas to be the WR1…
Don’t know how reliable to source is…or why Mularkey would suddenly realize what an impact he could have…
I've heard that rumor too but
that would be an odd move for Mularkey. I like Douglas but not as a number 1. I could see number 2.
That or he realizes just how BAD the Jacksonville receiving corps is
No disrespect to Harry
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Yes
HD would be a huge upgrade compared to anyone currently on their roster.
The question for Atlanta will be this on the HD front
Weems vs Douglas.
As much as Smitty loves Weems. Which is the best slot receiver. Remember HD can also bring value in the return game where he really broke out as a rookie. So greater slot value over greater return value. I think HD is the better overall talent here. No disrespect to Weems (who has really become a special teams leader and brings that fire you love on the field and in the clubhouse). I guess it’s just a question of what other teams throw at Harry money wise on whether we keep him or not?
We also have Kevin Cone, Meier, and Drew Davis waiting in the wings.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
It's like Belichick said last offseason
Why even have kickoffs if you are gonna neuter em anyway.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
All for letting Weems walk
His stock has dropped considerably this year – he was only average in returns and Akeem Dent overtook him as our best special teams coverage guy.
I think guys like Cone, Meier and Davis will get a shot this year, but I do believe we need to keep HD. I’m hoping the front office gets him what he needs, as I believe he’s poised to have a bigger impact under Koetter.
He'll be so cheap they'll probably resign him for camp
Then cut him during the final cutdown.
by TheAreopagite on Jan 27, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
They could be thinking WR in the 1st round to pair with HD I guess so
but Douglas only did okay as a number 2 when Julio was hurt. Not sure what I would do if I was in his shoes. Go to Jacksonville and hope Bratkowski is a decent enough OC where I can get the ball and make a run at trying to become a household name or hope to stay in Atl where the new OC likes to use multiple receiver sets, ultimately becoming an intricate part of the offense and getting a pretty good payday down the line.
Yeah...it'll be hard for him to turn down good money if someone throws it at him
I mean he may not get another opportunity to make bank for his family.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
I just don't think we need to OVERvalue the slot receiver over other needs this year
Can HD or Weems replacement get open and catch the ball? If the answer is yes then mission accomplished lol. Especially if that money can be spent to upgrade the hogs (OL) and dogs (DL).
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
I agree with you 100%
Maybe that’s why they drafted Meier? I don’t know, but I think they may have a player in mind for that role.
Meier is more of a possession receiver
If we’re going to replace HD in the slot, it would probably be with Cone – though he’s not a natural fit at that position either.
Yeah Cone is a more sideline / go kinda guy if I remember correctly
I have a feeling they are gonna move people around a lot more in Koetter’s system. Julio in the slot as well as on the outside. Davis, Meier, and Cone all impressed the coaches this past year, but Cone and Meier both got injured early didn’t they?
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Supposedly we interviewed Brian Quick from App State
He’ll probably be a 3rd or 4th rounder. 9th best receiving prospect from what I hear in this year’s draft.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
That receiving squad would be ridiculous
If Koetter knows how to use them then that would make an exciting offense, as long as they get the Oline straight. I don’t know much about Cone or Davis. I didn’t get a chance to read up on them.
Is he projected as a slot receiver??
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
Cone's limited experience
At GA Tech, Cone was mostly used as a downfield blocker. When he did catch them, it was generally on GO routes where he would gain 30+ yards at a time.
Meier was healthy this year, but inexplicably not integrated into the offense much. Cone and Davis spent most of the year inactive, while Cone was activated towards the end of the season.
This might be a dream scenario here
But if I look at our options, and see we can attempt to resign Abe and Grimes, or attempt to sign Mario Williams… I pick Super Mario. But as it has been mentioned many times before, it will all depend on the type of players Nolan wants in his system.
"He has lived up to the legendary billing... And the legend is born in Calvin Johnson!" -Wes Durham
by sportsfan4life2012 on Jan 27, 2012 10:09 AM EST reply actions
I am with you on mario, but-
a) couldn’t the texans franchise him?
2) I kind of think we can’t sell the farm to get him, which is what I fear it would take.
?) I also want Carl Nicks…so something’s gotta give.
Texas can franchise him at almost 22 million for 1 year.
Probably not gonna happen. But they could also be looking to sign him long term. We currently are in a better finacial position to do so.
I also wonder
If he would rather play DE. It could come down to system preference with him. If he is happy with Wade’s system I can’t see him leaving the Texans.
I remember reading
Before the season that he was hesitant due to having always rushed as a 4-3 DE. That said, he seemed to be doing fine in the 3-4.
Success is internally determined and externally executed.
I know I am in the minority of not wanting Nicks
Because to me, the $10+ million it would take to sign him would be better invested elsewhere, but I agree that it would take more than that to get Mario. Mario is making just under $14 million this year, so I think it would take something in that neighborhood to sign him. Would I spend an extra $5 million to get Mario over Nicks? Yes, yes, absolutely yes.
"He has lived up to the legendary billing... And the legend is born in Calvin Johnson!" -Wes Durham
by sportsfan4life2012 on Jan 27, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
if it came down to one or the other...yeah Super Mario
I am however fond of the idea of taking pro bowl protection away from our current biggest division rival, the New Orleans Drew Breeses.
I think it’s pretty clear we couldn’t afford both though, I’ll give ya that.
I don't think we should just automatically go after the biggest free agent
I think other DE such as Avril and Campbell (Cardinals) will do just as good a job or Grubbs (G) for oline. We should try to stretch our money as far as possible.
Yeah I see rush by committee / overload / scheme rather than one stud in Nolan's system
I don’t see needing to take a huge quantum leaps money wise to get good quality production on the DL esp given Nolan’s quote of “10 guys with 4 sacks each” comment.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Nolan has already said as much!! He will not be looking to one but the front 7 as a whole!!
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
Yep and I for one am looking forward to the unpredictability
Should be fun times!
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
I think we'll stay in 4 - 2 - 5 sets more and rush from the corners with DBs as well
Even 3 – 4 looks sometimes with Dent in there too and look for overloads in key pass rush situations
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Yup
You can bet that our safeties will be going after the QB a good bit as well. I imagine that once Nolan sees how Moore can hit, he’s going to use him like a Scud missile against Drew Brees.
The thoughts of that made me smile
a wicked evil…hitting the old action figures in just the right spot with a rock to break the rubber band and watch the arms and legs pop off kinda smile
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Oh yes
Like sugar-plum dreams, I look forward to watching Drew crumple as Moore spears him so hard, Brees’ kidney lands in the 10th row of the upper deck.
Literally laughed out loud bro
I don’t wish the man harm. He’s actually a stand up guy…but WTB lots of dirt and grass on opposing QB jersies this year.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
and that's my "official comment" in public chat
On Sundays I may be much less magnanimous in person.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Yeah - I like him as a person too
But I’m tired of seeing him slice up our defenses for 300+ yards every time we play him. And the fact that he broke Marino’s record against us made me cry blood.
Success is internally determined and externally executed.
I'm down with some good old fashioned hate.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
I didn't cry
When Vick took a concussion against us.
We were going to lose that game, let’s be real. It worked for us.
Truefacts stat #1
Team who’s QB has the prettiest jersy at the end of the game wins.
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
I want a defense that makes the opposing players say "There's blood in my stool"
Funniest MXC moment linked for your enjoyment
http://www.spikednation.com/evideo/mxc-epic-backflip
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
PRICELESS!
Success is internally determined and externally executed.
it's time
Dunta’s ability to take guys out of the game became realized as an intangible stat.
He has also stated that the 4-3 will not change this upcoming season.
4-2-5 would only be a change of pace formation at times, not a common occurrence I think.
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
Well he said that with people using more receiver sets and TEs like receivers
that we may find ourselves in that nickle look a lot too depending on what the offense is trying to do to us
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
But that will be dictated by draft, FA and how our dackfield shakes out.
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
This past year we ran nickle sets around 40% of the time
Much of the league runs some form of a nickle the majority of the time, employing a base set 20-30% of the time.
And it doesn’t just have to be 4-2-5, but the increasingly more fun 3-3-5 and 2-4-5.
by TheAreopagite on Jan 27, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Considering most teams
Don’t stay in their base formations more than 40% anyway, the idea of running a 4-3 vs 3-4 is a bit over-stated.
Chances are, you’ll see lots of 3-4-4, 3-3-5, 4-2-5 or 3-2-6 formations used with no sense of consistency.
No, I get the need for unpredictability...
but I see more of a 70% for our base formations…but that’s just me.
certainly will be better than the 100% predictability we had last year!!
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
Hell, you could +1 for BOTH sides of the ball on that issue!!
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
WTB offensive playcalling that won't leave them hanging out to dry all game
OL playcalling may be our defensive MVP this year lol
(crosses fingers)
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
One can only hope!!
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
Yeah I agree ... the main emphasis will be making the QB uncomfortable
regardless of formation and that will be a welcome change
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
that would give our suspect coverage CBs
a way to be productive. I like it. I hope it works.
Dump'um
At this point I dont realy care who stays or go’s as long as they do something about
the OL & DL,fans want to rip turner,ryan but it all starts up front .I think we can get by another year with syvotec at LT but OL needs to get bigger in the middle CENTER,GUARD then help on DL
Remember Mario Williams tore out his ACL
Unless you guys want to throw a big contract at a DE coming off knee surgery, he may not be the best bet. Not that we’ve ever done that sort of thing before.
I thought it was a torn Pectoral
Did I miss this news?
you're right...it was a pec
But Elvis Dumervil suffered one of those in 2010 and didn’t exactly light it up last year.
by TheAreopagite on Jan 27, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
They switched back to a 4-3 again
im pretty sure, thats why he didn have much success he was better as a 3-4 olb
wow
I know Smitty said there would be changes but reading some of these lists, and predictions. Looks like we’ll be trotting out a brand new team next year. No way Roddy gets traded, nor Matty Ice. Ovie stays, Dunta stays.I’m up in the air about what to do with Turner, but the team does need draft picks. I’ve no idea why they signed TG to a 7 mil 1 year contract, that’s a hefty chunk of change for a team that’s looking to make drastic changes. Granted we can’t sign everyone, but hard to believe any of the core players on offense or defense leave except for Abe and Grimes.
Coaching wins championships!
by Edgecrusher211 on Jan 27, 2012 11:20 AM EST reply actions
Don't be sure on Roddy
I’m not saying it happens, but given the “no sacred cows” comment, I don’t think any player (minus maybe Matty) are safe on this team, especially if said players can provide big trade value.
As for TG – I think it was an easy decision. If they let him go, they’d have to address yet another position and run the risk of losing a very good QB/TE pairing. I think this signing was done to allow one more year before finding TG’s long-term replacement, or to see if said player is already on the roster (which I don’t think is the case).
And yeah – it looks like we may end up fielding a very different looking team than the past few years, and I’m ok with that.
Ok, so we trade Roddy
Guess that means JJ, an inarguably less accomplished receiver, is now the #1 receiver and will be fed a steady diet of double teams. Re-signing HD and fielding him as the #2 receiver leaves us with a guy who hasn’t seen the field much, and when he did, he typically went up against the opposing team’s 3rd or 4th corner. looks like TG will be hauling in about 200 passes this season. So much for spreading the field.
One point
JJ did begin seeing double and triple teams this year when defenses realized Ryan was going to feed him the ball. Towards the end of the season, he was consistently catching balls WHILE double-teamed. He is just far faster and bigger than Roddy and he has that big-play ability.
As for HD, I don’t know if he’s a true #2 in the route running sense. He is a true slot receiver, but I could see him getting far more catches like Wes Welker in NE.
I have tremendous faith in JJ's abilities.
However, the reason that we moved up in the draft to get him was to spread the field, to make the defense pick their poison and never feel comfortable. Without Roddy, that defense can now zero in on JJ {who will still have success) and, more likely than not, do a good job of locking down the rest of the field, and we’ll be right back where we started.
Add to that the concerns about the decline in our running game, and I’d just have trouble seeing the front office letting Roddy go. Remember, the focus is on finding the necessary pieces to achieve post season success, not to begin rebuilding.
Good idea at the time?
Maybe I’m just misunderstanding the point. In one hand were saying Roddy is trade bait, for draft picks, plus he’s 30. We lose Roddy, we still need to find a replacement for him. Yet Tony G, is pushing 40. We’ll still need to find a replacement for him anyway. The money we used to sign him for one year seems puzzling. We could have found someone much cheaper in free agency and saved about 4 mil.
Coaching wins championships!
by Edgecrusher211 on Jan 27, 2012 11:58 AM EST reply actions
I agree.
Roddy is staying and I think Douglas is staying. The problem on offense is that we were missing a lineman or two. The Falcons still want an explosive offense and you don’t ge that by trading one of the best receivers in the league. I think the lack of explosion is in the RB corp. I like Turner but he’s one deminsional. If he would restructure his contract and become the short yardage back great. But we need a more explosive/elusive back.
The line went through a lot of changes this year compared to last year
I think once we settle on a rotation filled by Clabo, Blalock, Hawley at C, Johnson at RG, and either Svitek or a rookie at LT, and get some consistency with those guys playing most of the snaps, the offensive line will improve. Considering that Hawley, Reynolds, and Baker all played RG, Svitek and Baker played LT, and Hawley and McClure played C this season, there was no consistency, and I believe once we can achieve that, the line will be a much better unit as a whole.
"He has lived up to the legendary billing... And the legend is born in Calvin Johnson!" -Wes Durham
by sportsfan4life2012 on Jan 27, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Is anybody thinking about the overall goal here?
The team has been setting itself up with an overall goal of success. They have set up the team in a way that they see as being “Falcons Football”. Two years ago they decided they had that team and just needed a few pieces to polish it off. Then this year, after another playoff stall, they have decided to go to the next level and make changes. With an overhaul above the players this year I see less core players being moved. I was skeptical at first, but trading Turner might be the best thing for this franchise right now. Letting Dunta, Baker, and Abe go would be good financially. Other than that keep Roddy, Robinson and Ovie. Use Turner to get Bakers replacement would also be a good idea and let Snelling and Quizz take his spot. Robinson can replace Dunta.
by CombatFalcoholic on Jan 27, 2012 12:03 PM EST reply actions
Realities
Well, letting Dunta go won’t accomplish much since it will only free up 1 million in cap space. Unless we can find a team that will take on his salary in a trade, we’ll end up keeping him.
As for Turner, we may not be able to find a trade partner that’s willing to give up anything more than a late round (4th or greater) pick.
However, I agree that letting Baker go (poor performance) and Abe go (age concerns) are likely outcomes. If Abe agrees to sign for a smaller contract, I could see him staying – but not otherwise.
Things get crazy around here sometimes
Letting go of Roddy or Matty or Ovie would be shooting ourselves in the foot though. That to me is like saying let go of Spoon or Babs. It would end up in us taking steps backward instead of forward.
by CombatFalcoholic on Jan 27, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Two types of planning
First, I agree that letting go of Matty or Roddy would be an initial step backwards. And while I like Ovie, I’m not sure that he’s irreplaceable. It will depend on what kind of offense we run and whether a blocking FB is that necessary. We may need a FB that is more involved in the passing game, and I’m not sure Ovie fits that mold.
As for Roddy – losing him would hurt initially, but might make sense for the long-term. Having two #1 WRs is a luxury, and it may not be one that the team carries forward for too long, especially considering our needs in other areas of the team.
I agree that letting go Roddy would be a step backwards
And frankly, this team is trying to win now. We don’t have two #1 WRs right now. We have a #1 WR and a developing rookie who is almost certain to be a #1 WR in the future. If we lose Roddy, this offense loses the glue that seems to be holding it all together. I am against moving Turner at this point (depending of course upon the return) because I think Turner provides so much more to this team than a fourth round pick can (which clearly TD doesn’t value very much as we have only had two in the last four years, selecting Sidbury and Hawley). There is discussion that we could get a 4th round RB to replace Turner. Look at the guys selected there:
2008-Tashard Choice
2009- Mike Goodson, Andre Brown, Gartrell Johnson
2010- Joe McKnight
2011- Roy Helu, Kendall Hunter, Delone Carter, Taiwan Jones, Bilal Powell, Jaime Harper
None of those guys could hold Michael Turner’s jockstrap. Why do I say this? None of them can carry the load of a #1 back. I think it is foolish to think that we can go into next season with Snelling, Quiz, and an unproven rookie, and think that we will have the same success as we do now.
"He has lived up to the legendary billing... And the legend is born in Calvin Johnson!" -Wes Durham
by sportsfan4life2012 on Jan 27, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Agree to an extent
I think Turner sticks around. I’m not sure if they’ll try to integrate him into the screen game more (not likely) but we’re just not going to get much for him and certainly won’t be able to replace him with a fourth rounder.
That said, I’m not sure what the Falcons offense will look like next year. We do have to start thinking about the offense beyond MT, as he’s inevitably going to lose a step over the next couple of years, if he hasn’t already. Many NFL offenses are successful in RB-by-committee setups, so it’s not impossible to do. The question is whether the coaching staff will make that change and if they WANT to make that change.
As for Roddy – if I were the front-office, the only way I’d let him go this year is if we got a top-15 pick and another in the 3rd round. I do think that JJ will prove himself to be a true #1 WR in 2012, as his end of the 2011 season was spectacular. I’m not sure that Roddy is the “glue” per se, but he is definitely a security blanket for Matty.
And why can't we afford the luxury of two #1 receivers
it’s not like we are paying them both as a #1, only Roddy is. When Roddy’s contract is up Julio will get an extension to be paid like the #1 he will be. We have some holes but we also have lot’s of cap space at the moment trading Roddy just isn’t necessary and will in no way help the team.
Don't take this...
as me being a RW hater, I’m not but as WR’s go and the qualifications for making it to the HOF…Roddy will not be going!!
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
I'm not saying that I want Roddy gone...
that’s just the way the NFL does business. If you can get a good package for someone on the wrong side of 30, then that’s what will happen.
But you don't shoot yourself in the foot by doing so.
If we had another up and comer at WR then I can see dangling Roddy for a trade but we’re not at that level with our talent.
BTW we just got linked from Profootballtalk.com ... well played sirs!
Technically the glass is always full. 1/2 air. 1/2 water.
Sam Baker-TRADE Dunta Robinson-TRADE Ovie- RESIGN Grimes- RESIGN
Trading Baker not only gives you a decent draft pick, but it frees up some salary space. Trading Robinson gives you that decent draft pick and frees up ALOT of salary space as well.
Resigning Movie is a great move because he is easily one of the best FBs in the league, we NEED him.
Resigning Grimes gives us some much needed certainty at that position. Plus hes just fun to watch.
"We all have dreams. But in order to make dreams come into reality, it takes an awful lot of determination, dedication, self-discipline, and effort."
- Jesse Owens
The only problem here
Is that no one is going to trade jack for Baker.
Virtually on team will trade us something decent for Robinson while having to pick up his large salary.
Agreed!! I said this in another thread...
No way on god’s green earth we will get a pick for Baker…just won’t happen!!
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
I understand what your saying.
Risky players that are high priced are never a hot commodity but you always find teams like the Bengals, Jets, Sea hawks, Washington Redskins, etc. that are willing to take chances on these types of players. Dunta’s upside on selling him to another team is his physical-ness, having experience, and he had a pretty good career before coming to ATL. Baker’s upside is that he started off as a decent LT (still is decent) just hasn’t improved much at all. but hes still young, someone might think they can do something with him.
"We all have dreams. But in order to make dreams come into reality, it takes an awful lot of determination, dedication, self-discipline, and effort."
- Jesse Owens
Don't get me wrong
If we released Baker or Dunta, SOME team would pick them up. But when other teams know that you’re likely going to move on from a player, they won’t show up to the table. It happened last year with Michael Jenkins. Teams knew we would cut him, and we TRIED to trade him, but no one stepped up. The minute he was cut the Vikings stepped in.
The same will happen with Baker. There’s an outside shot of trading Dunta, but I can’t see which team would want him at this point.
Success is internally determined and externally executed.
Yall have a point
I know its a VERYYY small chance that we trade him but I mean hey, I feel like someone out of the other 31 teams in this league was impressed by him either we played them at one point or they thought hey “this guy just needs to fix a little here and there and he could be something” I feel like we could get a 6th or 7th round pick (young player, fresh start, potential) and free up salary space at the same time. I feel strong about a secondary ladened team trading for Robinson bc hes so physical and a good CB, just not worth the crazy contract we signed him to. He could play CB or add some weight over off season and be a FS
"We all have dreams. But in order to make dreams come into reality, it takes an awful lot of determination, dedication, self-discipline, and effort."
- Jesse Owens
Yeah but Dunta...
I think is actually going to be the corner we signed under Nolan. As far as Baker, teams arleady know they can get his kind of production in late round drafts where there are allot of OL and DL on the boards…
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
grimes..
while he developed an interesting way to play corner as a 5’10" 180 lb dude, I thought he either made a big play or gave up a big play. He is so dependent on timing it’s hard to count on him.
my two cents.
No one is trading
for either of them, maybe someone will give up a late rounder for Sam and if they will I would assume we would take it. No one will trade anything for Dunta, his contract is just too big.
We need to chill on the CB Market
I think DR is fine some people want rogers but he was in the same position as dr untill a good coach came along that what i think will happen to DR with nolan. As for cuts baker bye jerry maybe keep ovie unless u find a cheaper fb. To sign maybe Super Mario,Laron Landry,Nicks one or two of them deff not all 3, and any other suggests people have that we can explore through FA
I love Ovie as a Falcon
but no one has any idea if he’ll even be able to play next season. His knee was shredded against DET. Sadly, football is a business and there is no guarantee that Ovie will be able to play next season. He’s probably gone, along with Baker, Grimes, Kelly or Palmer, Peterson and Jerry. I also think we’re going to loose one more DB/S besides Grimes.
He only tore his MCL
and he did it in week 7. It could be a different story had he torn his ACL as well but he didn’t. Most come back 100% from an MCL tear and recovery time is at most a few months.
Thanks for the correction
Still, Ovie is gone if the price is too high. Ovie was paid $3.8M this past season and that is a lot for a blocking back. I doubt he’ll consider a pay cut.
Well in loving the idea of seeing spoon blitz more.
He’s gonna be a stud in the backfield.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jan 27, 2012 8:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Well in loving the idea of seeing spoon blitz more.
He’s gonna be a stud in the backfield.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jan 27, 2012 10:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Draft Boykin with our first pick.
Then you can cut Weems and one each of the DBs and WRs of your choice. Therefore freeing up lots of $$$$
Totally tongue in cheek but it is a thought that grows on you.
"Everybody has a plan until they get hit" Iron Mike Tyson.
"Screw 2nd." Lugs Harvey.
"In Grimes we trust, all others get gashed"- Me.
by CaptJackSparrow on Jan 28, 2012 7:30 AM EST reply actions
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