The Falcon, Expectations And Ray Edwards
by Dave Choate on Aug 23, 2011 7:30 AM EDT
in Falcons News
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PrintThe Falcons have shown they have quality depth at defensive end this off-season. John Abraham looks like a stud, as always, and Kroy Biermann is still a starting-caliber defensive end. Add promising rookie Cliff Matthews, steady veteran Chauncey Davis and emerging practice squadder Emmanuel Stephens and you've got yourself a decent depth chart.
Oh, and Ray Edwards. Almost forgot about that guy.
You can forgive me for the mental lapse, considering that Edwards has been little more than a sideline presence up to this point. The off-season knee surgery that has kept him from playing to this point also probably contributed to the sweet deal the Falcons got on his contract, and by all accounts he's progressing fine. In the words of Alfred E. Neumann, what, me worry?
Except I am curious about what, exactly, we should expect from Edwards. There's no doubt that he'll be the starter before long and he's virtually a lock to post 6-8 sacks, and potentially more with Abe as his bookend. But it can be slow-going with knee surgeries, and Edwards hasn't been able to do a whole hell of a lot this off-season thus far. Will he begin the season as one of the team's top two ends, or will Biermann serve as a bridge?
Consider this a discussion post, of sorts. Will Edwards start the season as the...well, starter? What will his final numbers look like for 2011?
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I never watched Biermann closely until this preseason.
To understand Biermann’s performance last year, you have to pay attention. Remember that for the first several games of the season, the Falcons gave up several big plays on special teams. The coaching staff decided to take a few starters and put them on the special teams units, and Biermann was one of them. If you’ve watched the special teams coverage units, Biermann is usually down the field and usually helping to stop the return man. I have no idea what his 40 time was, but watching him on defense, I’ve seen him dart across the line of scrimmage to make tackles. He has said that he could have had more sacks last year, if not for being winded from playing on special teams. That is why the signing of Ray Edwards was huge.
Very good point(s)
but that is also a reason why a replacement on ST’s needs to be found for KB. Him subbing for Abe and RE will allow him to catch his breath but I can see where he’ll substitute for both and still get plenty of snaps. After KB ATL doesn’t currently have a really good speed rushing DE.
That's why putting together the final 53 man roster a complex process
It’s not just about who’s the best DE or RB etc. If you’re on the bubble and you can’t deliver on special teams, then you’re not going to make the final cut. I’d like to see Brandyn Harvey make the final roster, he’s made some great catches and looked good at the WR, but if he’s not going to contribute on STs, then…
As far as DEs are concerned, I’m hoping Cliff Mathews is the real deal. He’s looked good at times.
by BEZERKO on Aug 23, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What about...
putting Mathews there to get him playing and get KB off ST. Mathews is young and one or two years on ST probably wouldn’t hurt him.
I always turn to the sports pages first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures.
--Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the United States.
by Blood_Talon on Aug 23, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Bear Woods.
Bear Woods can replace KB 71 in ST if he continues to shine.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Is he as good on ST as Beerman?
Watching Kroy on punt coverage this pre-season, he looks better than ever.
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When they drafted Akeem Dent in the third round
I had to ask, is backup middle linebacker a concern, or is this Kroy’s replacement on special teams? I’m guessing the latter.
by TheAreopagite on Aug 23, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
KB 71 was a OLB with an unrelenting motor when we drafted him. Though he bulked up after Falcons moved him to DE he still has great speed.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Depth in rotation > Single pass rusher
We all know Edwards can apply pressure. He may not be the top DE in the league, but teams do have to plan for him. I think what he really brings is a credible threat in a rotation of DEs. Just having him take half of the snaps will ensure that Abe and Beer man remain fresh, as opposed to last season when the sack threat disappeared when our two starters were out. Ray allows us to rotate DEs more frequently, but keep the pressure on QBs.
Don’t forget also – Ray is not just a good pass rusher, he’s also solid in run coverage – something we used to pull the Beer man out for. This will be critical in defending against the no-huddle, when we can’t rotate guys out quickly enough.
Good point esp on keeping Abe Fresh
How ever I have to disagree on couple of things.
1. KB 71 improved a lot against the run last year. I remember reading that he was Falcons best run defender among all the DE’s last year.
2. Ray Edwards is not a 10 sack guy but he is very good pass rusher who happens to be good against the run.
Depth is always a good problem to have, Falcons might use KB71 and Ray on first downs and running plays. Abe can walk in on 3rd and long and other passing downs. JA 55 was beast in 2008 with limited snaps.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I read something different
That Anderson and Davis were better at run stopping, but because they were such marginal pass rushers Biermann was the most well rounded DE we had.
Agree on Anderson.
I didn’t take him in to account as he played both DT and DE. But Chauncey Davis though little better against run was not better than KB 71. Davis made the list of top 20 worse DE in the NFL last year.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That was for pass rushing
Jamaal Anderson joined him in that exalted company.
The depth looks good
I like what I’ve seen in Mathews this preseason. I’m hoping he can take over on special teams and allow Smitty to rotate KB, RE and Abe with RE taking maybe only about a 3rd of the snaps that a regular starter would take until his knee is 100%. We need him healthy down the stretch and KB has proven he can be a starter which I think should bridge the gap for 100% Edwards.
Any word on how DR is doing with his injury anyone?
I have been impressed with Cliff Matthews
I see something in that guy. I think he will be just fine. I also think it’s a great idea to put him on ST and dedicate Kroy solely to the line. I too believe that he would have had better numbers if not for playing ST’s then coming back to the line.
by DirtyBirdTakeover on Aug 23, 2011 8:57 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree with everyone else
Matthews has looked good so far and hopefully he’ll get plenty of snaps in the next two games. My questions come between KB and Matthews, like whom are the other DE’s going to be?
I think 4 is enough for now
With Abe, Edwards, KB and either Matthews/Sidbury – I think we have a solid rotation at DE.
I think so
If Matthews continues to look good, and Sidbury shows he’s worth one more shot, I think Davis is gone.
Sidbury?
Is Sidbury still on the team? I haven’t watched much preseason…
by Falcons1133 on Aug 23, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes...
I always turn to the sports pages first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures.
--Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the United States.
by Blood_Talon on Aug 23, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we keep 5
Abraham, Edwards, Biermann, Sidbury and Matthews. Emmanuel Stephens might push Sidbury off the roster though. Chauncey Davis has to be gone, $4MM for a 4th choice DE is too much. Especially since he might be halting the progress of young players with potential like Matthews, Stephens and Sidbury.
I agree.
I just don’t see keeping Chauncey Davis. We’re talking about a guy that had multiple chances to unseat Anderson and couldn’t. I believe he’ll be in the last bunch of guys that gets cut.
Davis is a solid veteran who can reduce down inside and play DT on obvious passing downs
We don’t have another one of those now that Anderson is in Indy. This team very well may keep Davis.
by TheAreopagite on Aug 23, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Ray Edwards
Did exactly that in Minnesota. And he is much better than Davis.
Abraham is like a drag racer
Even with Edwards and his knee rehab, I’m more concerned about him not having to play on every defensive down. That never ends well. I like seeing him in there in 2nd and long and third downs. I think our depth at DE is good, it’s DT that concerns me. We have Peters, Jerry and Babbineaux. Problem is, I think Jerry’s going to need a few weeks to recover. I’m not sure he can recover for Chicago.
He did come back
"Success comes from knowing that you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." -John Wooden
Perhaps he means Peters needs time to recover
We also have Trey Lewis and Vance Walker. They are fine for 4th and 5th choice DTs, I can’t see how we could upgrade at this point for a similar price.
I think we are deep both inside and outside.
I dont think we will keep more than 9 D lineman on the roster. Maybe 10. My count goes something like this:
DE Abe, Edwards, Kroy, Sidbury, Matthews, Davis, Stephens
DT Babs, Peters, Jerry, Walker, Lewis
I know i am forgetting 1 or 2 that might be in the mix somewhere also.
Unless the coaches are seeing something that I am not (strong possibility), then Sid and Davis are gone for final cuts. Davis could free us up to pick up some 2ndary help that we need more than Dline.
I'd rather drop a DE and add a DT
With four DT’s one injury puts too much stress on the remaining guys.
I also don’t think we’ll carry more than five DE’s.
Agreed here
I can’t imagine carrying more than 5 DEs – plus 1 on the practice squad. We need a little more depth at DT due to the rash of injuries we’ve seen there lately.
I think...
out DT’s are good (can be great), I for one am not woried about this. Actually, I am thinking our “D” is gonna crush this year…we shall see…
I always turn to the sports pages first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures.
--Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the United States.
by Blood_Talon on Aug 23, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Crap...
this is not where I wanted this post…it was supposed to be a reply to another poster…oh well…
our*
I always turn to the sports pages first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures.
--Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the United States.
by Blood_Talon on Aug 23, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't expect much of anything from Edwards.
He’s not a prolific or consistent pass rusher, he’s not the missing piece and I wouldn’t be surprised if he does us like he did Minnesota when the time comes for us to redo Biermann’s contract. I fully expect less than 7 sacks each year he’s with the team, and I don’t expect him to play out his entire “cheap” contract.
Edwards is conistent and under rated.
Here are some stats for Pass(Edge) rushers for 2010 and also from 2008-2010. Edwards was No 3 for 2010 and No 11 for 2008-2010.
Jared Allen is not even in the list for 2010 and number 15 in 2008-2010. Ray Edwards was not happy because he was Vikings best DE but was paid less than a backup. For the money we signed him its a huge discount.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's all nice
but there’s a reason we were the only team, I repeat, only team who went coocoo for Ray Ray Puffs when he became a free agent.
You just dismissed facts with
“That’s all nice”. There may have been other teams pursuing Edwards, we just don’t know. Also I don’t see how he could do anything to us when Biermann becomes a free agent next season, because no player holds out just a year after signing a contract. If he over performs the contract I can see him trying to renegotiate it in a few years. But if he doesn’t get more than 7 sacks in a year he won’t try to get a pay rise. Biermann, with 10 career sacks, will not get paid more than Edwards, who has 30.
First of all:
You don’t know how I percieved his comment so don’t tell me what facts I did or did not dismiss.
Second of all:
PFF
Edwards signed a five-year, $30 million contract, including $11 million guaranteed by the Falcons. That looked like a quality deal for Atlanta, but the injury explains why he didn’t make huge money. We wonder if any other teams except the Falcons were even interested. Edwards wasn’t tied to other squads during the free agent period.
Like I said there’s a reason 31 other teams turned their heads at the thought of signing Ray Edwards, sooner or later you guys will find out why. My guess is sooner.
Yeah but..
I think this deal was done during the lockout. just sayin.
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Injury is a concern.
I agree with you on Injury, its a big unknown at this point. However I disagree that he is not a consistent pass rusher. Ray Edwards is consistent if you look at last 3 years and has been prolific in the last two seasons both in run and pass rush.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
just to point out
that quote you used above doesn’t posit anything of fact. They used “We wonder…” to preface their comment. I love the guys at PFF, but they’ll be the first to admit they aren’t football insiders (i.e., knowing inside deals and organizations). Seriously, you can ask them on twitter.
by KMarch on Aug 23, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you know that ATL
was the only team going after RE? Or could it have been that RE preferred to play for ATL?
I remember distinct that the Cleveland Browns were in the chase too
But Ray took LESS money to come to Atlanta. So, there were other teams in the market at the time.
Cleavland Browns were definetly in Play.
The Falcons and Browns were favorite to land Ray Edwards. I remember reading a tweet day before he signed about Ray choosing either Falcons or Browns offer. His Agent denied later that Browns were in play. It might be agent playing nice with Browns.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He was never connected to the Browns!
The Browns said so themselves! Plus imagine how crazy that sounds, a player who cried about not making ENOUGH money with his previous team chooses to play for a team that offers LESS money than another! Where do you guys get this stuff????
I have soruces on twitter who called 22/24 signings before they were anounced in the media.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Good for you but,
Ray Edwards’ agent Doug Hendrickson: "Cleveland never reached out to us on Ray or ever returned our calls.’’ (Edwards signed with Falcons).
^Ray Edwards’ very own freaking agent dude!^
DE Ray Edwards Signs With Atlanta Falcons; Browns Were Never Interested
^Browns’ website reported by Jay Glazer^
Your sources were wrong!!!!!!!
Even Adam Schefter of ESPN was following the same source on some of the signings.
He called out the same guy few times including the Kevin Kolb Trade,Nmadi going to Eagles,Sidney Rice going to hawks.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He probs got the intel from his reliable source.
by FlyYouFalcons on Aug 23, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The Vikings were interested
When Florio pressed Spielman on his top internal free agent priorities not yet signed, Spielman singled out Ray Edwards as someone “who’s been a very good player for us,” then Rice. Perhaps Edwards is more of a priority to the team than Edwards lets on. The defensive end has said in the past he’s not optimistic of a Vikings return. “We have a history of guys who are young who are coming into a second contract. Those are the guys historically we’ve tried to definitely keep,” Speilman said.
Wouldn’t the team that he played his whole career at know the most about his ability and the state of his knee? The bottom line is we don’t know which teams were interested, an agent quote on twitter ruling out the Browns doesn’t rule out every other team.
Terrible point!
You’re trying hard! LOL
Ray Edwards was still under contract when Spielman said that, find me a quote from Spielman about Ray Edwards after he became a free agent. There aren’t any, maybe a “good riddence”.
Better yet find me another team linked to him besides the “alleged” Cleveland Browns. YOU WON"T.
My point is
That just because he wasn’t publicly linked to a team doesn’t mean that there weren’t teams interested. Surely you can agree that not all potential moves are made public. Spielman actually said that during the lockout, and I remember you using it as evidence that Ray Edwards was going back to the Vikings.
You mean like the Asomougha (sp?) move?
No one – anywhere, including ESPN – had any idea that the Iggles were in the running (and in fact leading) the charge to get the coveted cornerback.
Peter Grier (Nfl Network)
But maybe he’s not a Facebook/twitter type of guy though. He mentioned the Eagles the day before and no one took it serious because they just got DRC in a trade and they already had AS.
So, that kind of defeats your point
If only ONE source reported on the Iggles, and only ONE source reported on the Browns being interested (it was actually more than one), then there WAS interest in Edwards elsewhere.
How does that defeat my point?
Ray Edwards to the Browns was a rumor created by the awkward mind of Adam Schefter and denied by everyone else. There’s a big difference.
You don't know that
Peter Grier had sources. He could easily have been speculating.
Off subject, but damn I love this guy!
Bill Belichick:
"Philosophically, plays that are non-plays shouldn’t be in the game, I don’t think it is good for the game. Extra points, when you’re up to the 99 percent range in extra points it’s not a play. Let’s move the ball back to the 15-20 yard line and not make it a tap in. Make them kick it. Same thing with the new kickoff return, if you’re just going to put the ball on the 20, put the ball on the 20."
Is he righteous or what?
I dont like him but he has a point.
Why bother planning and training about something which has high probability of happening.
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
Sure, it has a high probability, but there have been games decided by a missed EP. It adds to the drama of the game. If they start playing the game strictly based on the probability values, it could become a very boring game.
I don't get that comment
taking away plays in the game would seem to lessen the competitiveness. Thus, what I’m talking about would keep the level of competitiveness the game already has.
I don't think he's saying that.
He’s saying the high percentage range plays (extra points) should be changed to make it harder (move it back further) not taken out of the game altogiether. And then he’s saying that its no point in having a "non-play (kick off) that seems more likely teams will start on the 20 yard line. So I agree. I don’t like the new kickoff rule either and the extra point could be moved further back.
Makes sense
I will say that I think the kickoff rule has become just the latest annual fad about complaining how the changes will ruin the NFL.
2009: Everyone was going nuts about the Dallas scoreboard and how it would affect punters, “Hochuli Rule,” and new Wedge formations
2010: New Ref placement; defenseless players; play goes dead when helmet is removed
2011: Kickoff Rule, replay of all scoring plays.
If the new rule truly hurts the game, they’ll remove it.
by KMarch on Aug 23, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This
We should use advanced stats to rate everyone and let the games be played out on Madden, right?
There’s a reason they play the games. Belichick should know that better than anyone not named David Tyree.
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He tells it like it is.
I respect him for that. Plus, you can’t deny his success as a coach.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Aug 23, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The Falcants suck.
Upon further review, I have decided that the Failcons are a bunch of incompetent fools. Did you see the way the Packers took them apart? Ha ha ha that was really funny!
by SaintsRule2011 on Aug 23, 2011 12:57 PM EDT reply actions
Are you referring to the playoff game your Saints failed to make it to
because they got their asses ripped open by those Seahawks? The Saints defense bouncing off of Marshawn Lynch, now that was really funny!!!!!!
You're not just a troll
You’re a horribly ineffective one. Gosh, guy.
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He's not even annoying
I simply pity the man.
You know what was even funnier?
The defending Super Bowl champions, who should theoretically do very well in the playoffs, being handled by the worst playoff team in NFL history. Maybe that Super Bowl title was just a fluke.
They made Marshawn Lynch
look like Michael Turner on roids.
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Don't feed the troll...
But he is a completely incompetent – and blithering – idiot.
One thing I don't understand...
was that "Aints is actually in their name…but we’re the Falcons. There’s no “cant” in there anywhere. There’s not even a “can”.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Aug 23, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
They try so hard
But when your fan base is operating at the average of a first grader, you take what you can get.
Was there...
really a need to insult the average first grader over this moron…
Saint’s “Fan Moto”: Saint’s fans are Unique…..just like everyone else!!
I always turn to the sports pages first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures.
--Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the United States.
True point
I apologize to all first graders reading this blog. You’re all far more capable – and have a much brighter future – than the average Aints fan.
That is all.
you must be 13 years old
Cannot even make fun of other teams. Also, you must be bored to tears!!!!
Prementive strike on his part
The Saints D looks terrible so far and they might be looking at a long season.
Sean(Payton) is that you?
It's all about Process...
by Vishnu_falcon on Aug 23, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Marshawn Lynch.
NUFF SAID!
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Ray Edwards' Pads
Ok. I know this may be petty, but am I the only one who notices that Ray Edwards is STILL wearing his Vikings Colored pads underneith his Falcons Jersey. The colors stand out easily.
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