A Falcoholic Breakdown Of Falcons Free Agency Thus Far
Yesterday, the Atlanta Falcons were linked to a total of 14 undrafted free agents, with a few more rumored as of the wee hours. Not even a third of those guys will make the team or the practice squad once all is said and done, but for now, excitement reigns.
One thing you'll notice from glancing over the list is that the Falcons mostly used these signings to try out guys at positions of need. I think we'd all agree that the team could always use more depth on the offensive line, in the secondary and along the defensive line. The only guys who don't fit the description are a long snapper and a couple of wide receivers, but hey, they're at least good camp bodies.
Until free agency officially opens—which thankfully isn't that far away—this is the good stuff. Unfortunately, I do have to walk back Noel Devine, now that the report turned out to be wrong and he's signing with the Philadelphia Eagles. And of course, now Stephen Nicholas is reportedly back in the fold, which more than makes up for Devine.
With the Falcons probably passing on free agent pass rushers and seeking to re-sign at least two of their free agent offensive linemen, this might be the biggest news we get for a little bit. Soak it in.
After the jump, I break down my favorite pickups. Check it out.
QB Adam Froman: My personal favorite of the undrafted free agents, Froman is a highly intelligent prospect who I'm already willing to project as the eventual backup to Matt Ryan. We all know that my predictions are as useful as mittens on a scorpion, though.
Still, you can't help but like the Louisville product. Good kid, smart kid, capable kid whose only weakness is a lack of elite arm strength...but he's still got more zip on his throws than JPW. He might supplant Wilson this year.
C Paul Fenaroli: A definite project, Fenaroli is immensely strong and a tough blocker. With the Falcons inking him to a three year deal, he'll have a chance to turn his raw physical tools into a career as at least a backup center. I could see the team carrying him on the practice squad for a year or two to let him develop, and then letting him take over behind Joe Hawley.
OT Matt Murphy: Jason calls him a sleeper pick, and he apparently attracted a lot of attention for the brief time he was out on the open market. At 6'4" and about 310 pounds, Murphy has the size to play tackle, the toughness and lateral ability to play guard and the tenacity to be a pain in the ass for anyone lined up against him. He's much more polished than Fenaroli, and thus more likely to make the final roster if the team loses Tyson Clabo or one/both of Justin Blalock and Harvey Dahl.
DB Kirk Belgrave: The Kent State product isn't going to wow you with his speed, but he's a decently physical player with size at 6'1, 205 pounds. Given that the Falcons have shaky depth at safety, Belgrave might be able to stick there and maybe even pull a few snaps at cornerback in the long run. He's a definite project, though, so look for him to make it as a practice squadder if he makes it at all. I do think he comes with a little upside.
WR D.J. Davis: I know, I know. The last thing we need right now is another wide receiver. But hear me out.
The Falcons are probably going to boot guys like TIm Buckley off the practice squad, and even Brandyn Harvey is no lock to stay there after a disappointing training camp in 2010. That leaves room for someone like Davis to take a spot. In 2010 playing for Oregon, Davis reeled in 42 catches for 470 yards and three touchdowns, decent enough totals but nothing eye-popping.
What I like about him a bit more is his athleticism. At 6'1 and over 200 pounds, he runs a 4.42 40 and by all account has considerable spring in his step. Like almost everyone on this list, he's going to need some seasoning, but he may eventually be a decent depth guy with some special teams value.
So that's my top five list. What's yours?
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robert gallery joins seahawks
now it’s falcons vs bills for clabo. we all know who should win that battle.
If he chooses the Bills, it really all about the money.
However, I think this gives the FO a bargaining chip. Maybe now it’s more likely that we can sign him and one more O-lineman
It's always about the money
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by FrozenFinger on Jul 27, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Please Oh Please sign Blalock
That is all I ask. Oh and is there any chance we trade for Osi?
by dirtybirds233 on Jul 27, 2011 2:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
you know...
the only place I have heard “trade rumors” for Osi is here on the Falcoholic and I guess AJC boards (maybe) – no legit “sources” are speculating that possibility
know what you believe in and why you believe in it
Same here
But it’s still fin to fantasize about!!
by dirtybirds233 on Jul 27, 2011 2:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm pulling for Blalock too.
Clabo and Blalock would make my day. I just don’t want a new guy on the blindside. After that, if we sign a RB (Snelling or one other FA) I will be completely happy. Oh and Bryant.
DeAngelo Williams is off the board, reportedly.
He would’ve been nice. We’ll most definitely keep Bryant. He earned his paychecks last year and deserves to be rewarded.
I’m tellin’ you. Reggie Bush. It’s going to happen. Haha!!
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yasinskas is saying Panthers resigned him.
Good for them. That means my DWill jersey isn’t out-of-date yet!
It also means they’ll have two RBs worth watching up here in NC
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You have have a D Will jersey?
Burn it or we will excommunicate you.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 4:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I live in North Carolina.
While I am a Falcons fan through and through, I do cheer for the Panthers when they’re not playing us.
I also make fun of the Panthers when they lose.
DWilliams is actually one of my favorite running backs, and the jersey was a gift. So I wear it occasionally. :P
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I was born in Charlotte.
My grandaddy was the very first Panthers fan, my grandmother still has season tix, my cousin worships Steve Smith but I ain’t sportin’ no Carolina jersey.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 5:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In high school, I did cartwheels to school while on a skateboard in a blizzard going 14 miles uphill both ways to a volcano.
I do give most Panthers fans a small bit of grief. (“You’re a brave soul for wearing Panthers attire in public!”)
But I’ve lived here 7 years, I claim the Falcons all day every day, but I do watch the Panthers, mostly because I only have local TV channels. :(
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Both ways???
Damn that’s impressive.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 6:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So are Volcanos and blizzards but he's a man.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 6:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bush would be a steal
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by FrozenFinger on Jul 27, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we should kick the tires on it.
As you probably know from me writing about it the other day. haha.
He’s a good athlete that plays 110%. Yeah, he’s had some rough spots, and yeah, it could be debated about whether he’d be used correctly or not here, but I think it’s at least worth a look.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I would feel safer with a few more OL's signed
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
Reports saying that Namdi is negotiating with Jets
He also said he’d take less money to play for a contender. Can you imagine, Revis on one side and Namdi on the other? I’m glad were not gonna be playing em until the Super Bowl.
by dirtybirds233 on Jul 27, 2011 3:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Means nothing if their LBs can't cover.
All that would do to us is shut down Julio and Roddy.
We would still have HD (who will be back 100% this year) and Jenkins (who is good enough to beat any LB)
And then any 5th guy we trot out there is going to be better than most 5th guys.
Not worried.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not fair
They had the best defense last year and if they added Namdi you would be “Not worried”?
"Hard work beats talent, when talent doesnt work hard"
by Hudson's Soul Patch on Jul 27, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
What would scare me more...
Would be them going out and getting loaded on offense. That would actually make them a balanced team.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
They will lose a lot because of FA if they sign Namdi.
I mean have the raiders been that good because of him anyway?
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 4:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly... that would be incredibly stupid for the Jets
If Nnamdi is willing to take less money and it puts him in our range (unlikely, I know), then awesome… but if he can’t be a Falcon, then i’d LOVE to see him go to the Jets, because that’s where he would have the least amount of impact.
The Jets secondary can only get so incredible, and a secondary can only have so much impact on a game. Significantly improving in an area where you don’t need additional improvement will not help your team.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not convinced he would help us that much, if only for the same reason.
Yeah, Grimes isn’t the best cover corner, and while Nnamdi is an elite corner, just how much of an upgrade is he over Grimes or even Dunta?
All that money we throw at NA would be better spent on an elite pass rusher, which unfortunately is looking more and more bleak by the hour.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
The same reason being what good is an elite DB if the other 9 can't do their jobs.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as te pass rusher goes
I still dot get it. Like I said yesterday, the FO is basically banking on Abe not declining and matching his numbers, and Kroy stepping up in a huge way. Its a huge risk and I don’t get it.
by dirtybirds233 on Jul 27, 2011 4:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's not like we haven't been trying. CJ took a monster contract from Carolina, and Ray Edwards is iffy.
Aside from those two, you’re taking a pretty big risk on anyone else. Even Edwards, really.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true
But it also scares me more knowing we pursued CJ heavily and came up short, cause that means the FO knows we need a pass rushers but we failed to get one
by dirtybirds233 on Jul 27, 2011 4:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Or it was a scam like people pull on eBay.
Bid a huge amount of money to get that poor sap (in this case, the Panthers) to pay WAY more than they wanted to pay.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
are you crazy?
they drafted that cornerback out of boise state last year… first round guy getting polished in the nickel? you should be more worried that you seem to be haha
by falcolicmsudawg33 on Jul 27, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
They can have the best secondary in all of everything
but their D was already REALLY good. How much better is it going to get realistically if they add NA? And just because he’s a first round guy doesn’t mean anything. Weems was undrafted. He’s pretty good!
If they focus on making an obvious strength stronger, they’ll continue to falter in the area they should be focusing on aka offense, and that will constantly get them beaten by the more complete teams ie Colts, Ravens, Patriots, Steelers.
Nnamdi can only cover one guy. Yeah, it completely takes out that one guy, but if you have four other guys who are nearly as capable and can get open on his teammates, Nnamdi can’t do a Nnadamn thing about it.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
In regards to the Jets offense
They need a new QB, they were already stacked at every other position, but Sanchez would blow games for them. I will give him credit for winning some close ones, but he is not nearly as good as Freeman (who I recall was drafted much later).
And then you have the law of diminishing returns on defense. The D won’t magically hold everyone to 3 points a game from 9 because of one more super star.
by Whyte Bler 000 on Jul 27, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I like both
Fenaroli and Murphy. Add Jackson into that mix and that could be the OL for the future.
Froman is also a promising pick up.
I like Froman because he has a rather popular nerd reference as his last name.
Mad props to anyone else who knows it. :P
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Bueller ? Bueller ?Bueller ?
All hail the Sausage King of Chicago !!!
Put
an “A” in front of his last name and it changes his complexion totally. LOL just had to throw that in.
Err... he's already got that "A"...
ADAM Froman
A. Froman
I like your thinking.
I like your attitude, sir
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I keeping hearing rumors circulate that we're in the running for Jason Babin...
Thoughts?
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 3:47 PM EDT reply actions
I wouldn't be too excited about it. He had one good year in 8 seasons and he's 31.
I prefer Kiwanuka of the DEs that’s left. Osi is good but doesn’t he turn 30 this year?
thing to remember about him...
It was the first year he’d actually played in a system that fit his skillset on a 4 man front.
Put a guy in the right system, and it’s not that unusual to see a jump in production.
So I think it would be unwise to assume he was just a 1 year wonder.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
With one good year under his belt
you don’t have much of a choice.
Looking at the numbes should concern people about Babin -
30 sacks in eight years with 12.5 coming last year
Started 42 games in 8 years and 32 of this coming in two seasons
82 games total played in in 8 years – four season with less than 10 games played
Babin cannot be viewd as an upgrade based on his current numbers and one good out of eight.
For the reason I just stated, you totally have a choice
He was never playing on a 4 man front. I think it would be odd to just assume that was a coincidence.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
that's too simplistic for you mwalex
you should know better than to throw out numbers and ignore the context. As chesire points out, Babin was in poor scheme fits for the majority of his career. He flashed potential in Philly, the Titans saw it, and look what happened.
and it should be noted...
It’s not that weird for a guy’s production to go through the roof when they get into the right scheme. That’s the story on one of the 49ers DEs… can’t remember his name.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It is not a matter of being that simplistic
It is just as easy to assume he had a good year instead of him being a victim of a bad scheme. If he has another good year under his belt in a 4-3 then I’ll agree with you guys. So far he has one good year sack wise.
You guys completely ignored the point of very few games started and a lot of missed games. Is that due to scheme also?
Maybe
The scheme set him up to be injured
by PurpleDRANKnotJUICE on Jul 27, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys completely ignored the point of very few games started and a lot of missed games. Is that due to scheme also?
Of course! Can’t be very good in a scheme that doesn’t suit you. Still, he’s started over 12 games in all but two seasons; within that he’s started 15 or more three times. He clearly was injured early in 2008, and was traded mid-season in ‘09 which explains why some of the time missed. Other than that, he’s been on the field.
You guys are going to make excuses
because you hope ATL goes after him. Also, he might have played over 12 games but he did not start that many games. Not according to Pro Football Reference.
I’m sorry, I’m not going to get excited about a 31 year old DE that has had 7 less than mediocre years in the NFL and one good year.
lol - okay, whatever
I don’t get why it’s such a stretch to think a guy tripling his production suddenly MIGHT be linked to being in the correct scheme for the first time in his career. It seems WAY more likely than “Oh, he just got lucky one year”. I mean that’s an excuse.
But we shall see I supposed.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd much rather
take a 2 year risk on Babin, than a 5 or 6 year risk on Edwards and spend 4 times as much.
by Whyte Bler 000 on Jul 27, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
It is exactly the same
No difference except that he has seven crappy years as a track record.
Okay, whatever is right. Fans can convince themselves of whatever they want. After all, logic has no place on a sports blog.
If you want a good DE with a proven track record ATL should go after Osi. Plain and simple. Babin is nothing more than a cheaper, less proven alternative. Yeah, whatever.
As you pointed out
it’s just as logical to think one way as the other; don’t count your opinion as the only logical one.
I don't
but I can support my opinions with information. As far as Babin is concerned can you do the same? Please, I am more than willing to change my mind. I would like to see ATL upgrade the DE corps but intelligently.
you're very feisty today
the info you’ve supplied above is just as valid to your point as the info I’ve provided to back up mine. Again, don’t turn this into “I can develop better factual opinions based on x than you can” debate. We agree to disagree here.
Fair enough and I apologize
I just hate to see the board jump into “We missed the one we wanted so let’s take what’s left even if it’s no better” type group think.
I think Osi, while more expensive, would be a much better option for the forseeable future. He is a known quanity.
Not a problem
I would celebrate getting Osi as well. The difference is, from my knowledge, that Osi still has a valid contract with the NYG, who have given no indication they’re going to cut him (despite our sources here!). And we can’t afford a trade right now.
I feel like i've explained this three times already
Let me ask it in the form of a question – do you think it’s just a complete coincidence that that the first year he played on a four man front, his production tripled?
If you think that’s a coincidence, then so be it. I don’t believe that’s a coincidence, and it’s not unusual for it to happen to players.
So please stop telling me i’m not supporting my opinion with information. I keep giving you the information, and your response is just “You’re just believing what you want”. No, i’m not.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It's probably not a coincidence
But how can you be sure he’ll perform to that level again? Are you willing to bet how well the defense will play on a 31 year old DE with one good year under his belt? I’m not.
I can't be sure
Any more than I can be sure about CJ, Ray Edwards, Osi, etc.. I mean there are some good DEs out there, but none of them have put up consistently good numbers year after year.
And if you were to ask me if i’d rather have Charles Johnson, then yes, I probably would, if for no other reason than he’s younger. But the Falcons can only build based on what’s ahead of them and work with what is available to make their team as good as possible.
Now I will say that if we do sign Babin, he can’t be our next version of Abraham. We will still have to go out and get someone to be “the guy” after Abraham leaves. But based on what we know about our team going in to the 2011 season, Babin seems like a great complement on the right side. Perfect? No. But a good fit.
And yes, you could be right, this past year could have been a complete aberration. It’s just hard for me to believe that his production happened to go through the roof as soon as he got into a different scheme.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
All fair points
And it’s all a guessing game at this point. Of the guys you’ve named the only one that has been consistent all the way around is Osi. Osi has put up pretty good numbers year after year except for the year he sat out with an injury.
We’ll see on Babin. If the FO signs him I trust that they know what they’re doing.
Agree completely on the Abe scenario.
I like it
bottom line: he had more sacks than CJ and Ray Edwards last year. Sure, he’s 31 and never flashed that before last year, but the fact remains that he did it.
Of course, I’d wouldn’t be all that pleased if he gave him more than a 3-4 year deal at more than 7mil per. Though, even if he was given more, it would still be another good player on our DEF
Seems like he really wants to go to the Eagles, though
I don't think he's enough of an upgrade
If you’re getting him to be a part-time starter in 2011 and to take over for Abe in 2012, then sure, especially if he doesn’t cost too much. But I’m not convinced he’s that much better than Biermann right now.
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You'd still have to get an even better DE down the road to replace Abraham
My feeling is that this year, we don’t need the guy who gets Charles Johnson type money. What we need is a solid guy who doesn’t break the bank, who helps complement Abe, and improves the pass rush.
When Abe leaves, that’s when you probably need to start looking at a blue chip free agent.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm expecting them to find a baller next year if Abe leaves
The free agents next year include Biermann, JA98, Abe, Decoud, Gonzo, Peelle, and HD. I’m already expecting to only sign Biermann, Decoud, and Abe (to a lesser contract). With the money freed up from these FAs after re-signings, I think we’ll have the cap space to go after a very good DE (if one is available next year)
A name for next year
Cliff Avril. Good young pass-rusher from the Lions that has really progressed in his 3 years in the league. He’ll be a UFA next year.
YES YES YES
Except he’ll probably be on everyone’s radar after a season of playing on that nasty Lion’s line. 7-8 sacks sounds about right. He’ll be expensive
by PurpleDRANKnotJUICE on Jul 27, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't get how you can say that
he had 12.5 sacks last year. 12.5!! I love Biermann, but I’m not sure he even put a hand on the QB 12.5 times last year.
But he was in the backfield and putting pressure on the QB nearly as much
The difference between a pressure and a sack is about a tenth of a second. Babin had a great year, but can he duplicate it? It’s just as plausible that Biermann finally picks up 9-10 sacks and Babin regresses.
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It’s just as plausible that Biermann finally picks up 9-10 sacks and Babin regresses.
Even if that’s the case it couldn’t hurt to pick up Babin – granted, for a decent price. Then the Falcons DEF becomes that much better.
Babin wasn’t in the right scheme for most of the years in the league. Philly Fans are salivating at getting him back, and others are kicking themselves for ever letting him go. It’s interesting b/c I think the fact that something happened to where the Titans don’t want him back have caused some to question his value. I understand it, but still, it seems like a light flashed in his head, and I wouldn’t mind having him.
Where is the logic?
He had one great year due to being in the right scheme. And that team might not bring him back. Doesn’t that sound strange, in the least little bit?
Not really
The Titans have a tendency of doing that. Kearse, Haynesworth, Vanden Bosch, now Babin. They don’t want to pay big money on their DL. If a smart DC can replicate the circumstances which led to Babin’s success, then why not expect like result?
Okay, does ATL have a smart DC?
I think you’ve just pointed out another reason why Babin would not be good in ATL.
I think anyone who is coaching in the highest level of football would be considered "smart".
No matter how smart they are, it doesn’t mean they always correctly do things.
After all, Einstein couldn’t tie his own shoes.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
4 years in we'd better get the right answer this season
Be a lot of unhappy fans here and elsewhere if this defense doesn’t play like a championship defense this season.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by FrozenFinger on Jul 27, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
My response to that is BS
C’mon Caleb, this is the real world. People get hired because of past results or their pedigree and it takes years to get rid of them. BVG was a decent DC in college and has shown very little so far.
The real world
The real world screws people on a daily basis. People get hired for who they know, what connections they have, not necessarily based on merit. We would never know who was hired based on that premise, though.
It is silly to think that BVG isn’t a smart man. You don’t become a professional coach without knowing what you are doing. The best pros know how to apply their knowledge to the fullest extent. While we can play armchair coordinator from our La-Z-Boy recliners and talk about what we would’ve done differently, or how “bad” someone is, the fact of the matter is we’re the ones on the couches, they’re the ones who’ve put in the work and time to get to that position. If you really think someone is so bad, then set out and go do it better.
We may not have the best all-around coaches, but who’s to say our next DC wouldn’t do worse? It’s the continuity. We have predictable coaches. Boring coaches, if you will. They’re not exciting, and you know what you’re going to get out of them.
BVG has shown more than you or I would’ve shown. We might not like it, but it’s what we’ve got. So relax on the coordinator hate. They’re not going away this year, whether we like it or not. Might as well try to enjoy it.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, BS Caleb
BVG is not a good DC. Suggesting the next one would be worse in nothing more than deflection. And, if ATL hired a new DC that was worse than BVG then someone should question the qualifications of the people doing the hiring.
It doesn’t matter if BVG has shown more than you or I, that is another weak deflection, you and I aren’t paid to be NFL DC’s.
Don’t tell me to relax on the coordinator hate, especially since all you do is defend them. I can atleast support my positions with more than opinion and supposition.
As far as being a coach an not be a smart man, depending on your definition of smart, history could prove otherwise.
C'mon now boys, hug it out
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by FrozenFinger on Jul 27, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't hug it out
In fact, it’s been way too long since Caleb and mwalex have fought over BVG. It can only mean one thing…season’s getting close!
Rrragh!
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by Dave Choate on Jul 27, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope we don't end up
screaming for this guy’s head later on this season.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by FrozenFinger on Jul 28, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's my thing
Babin is already 31. Until last year’s explosion of awesome, his career high for sacks was 5. That’s also Biermann’s career high through three seasons.
I think all too often we seduce ourselves with the idea that a career year is an indicator that a player has broken out. It’s much, much more likely that at age 31, Babin simply had a career year, one he won’t be able to repeat, regardless of the scheme.
I think he’s a fine player, but no enormous upgrade.
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by Dave Choate on Jul 27, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here's mine
Ignore the age, let’s go into this blind-folded.
One player just came off an 11.5 sack season, his next two best season sack totals are 6 and 4.
Another just came off a 12.5 sack season, his next two best season sack totals are 5 and 4.
Why should we give CJ (the first player) the benefit of the doubt and not Babin? It’s silly. CJ’s season could have been just as much an aberration as Babin’s.
That is an easy one
Since 2008 CJ has been one of the highest ranked DE’s in the NFL:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/21/charles-johnson-already-elite/
Gauging a DE by sacks alone is as bad as gauging DB’s only by INT’s.
Agreed.
But that’s largely the factor that people here are so adamantly using as their guide.
And since you brought up the good point that we shouldn’t just be looking at sacks, let’s bring Ray Edwards back into the discussion. I fear we’re discounting him just b/c of what some jaded Vikings fans say on PFT comment threads.
PFF rank him the 8th most complete 4-3 DE in the game, ahead of CJ and Robert Mathis, behind the likes of Abe and Jared Allen (slightly).
Another link
to show what a stud Ray Edwards (and Jason Babin for that matter) is.
Those numbers blow the amateur eye-valuation of Vikings fans out of the water. For the lazy: Edwards was 3rd most productive edge rusher in the entire NFL (one behind CJ) in 2010. Over the last 3 years he’s 11th (3 behind CJ), and Babin is 14th.
Now that's what I'm talking about
Good data and can be used to help clarify the comparisions.
Notice in that last link though, “The only reason Charles Johnson isn’t higher up this list is that the opportunity to play hasn’t been there”. Based on that he would have been higher on the list.
Here's the skinny.
Charles Johnson told the media that the Falcons were pursuing him very heavily. So that should squash the “we’re not in the big DE free agent market” BS.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 3:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
then surely it was just an issue of the Panthers offering WAAAAY more $$
Why would you want to sign on to that trainwreck for multiple years??
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would anyone want to sign with us in 2008?
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would anyone have wanted to sign with us then, rather.
Eerily same situation. Rookie coach, rookie QB, totally new schemes everywhere.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Because I think Matt Ryan had a lot more upside than Cam Newton does
I mean QB play was the key to all of it.
And I could be wrong, maybe Cam Newton comes out and just blows everyone away, but I would be stunned.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Hellz yeah.
The panthers blow. We just have to figure out how to beat up mobile QB’s
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 4:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not saying the Panthers can't be good...
I just think they have a much more dysfunctional organization than we did entering 2008. But this is the NFL, and anything can happen.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure any organization could be more dysfunctional than we were.
That (End of ’07) was a horrible, horrible time. And we came out in 2008 and blew the whole world away.
We were very fortunate to have such an unheard of turnaround.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Matty was the interception machine who didn't win a championship.
Cam looks better on paper.
Of course, games aren’t played on paper, but I think you understand what I’m saying. Cam could be damn good.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I see the parallel you're getting at, but...
I’m not sure i’ve ever seen a team as talentless as that Panthers team was last year.
The 2007 Falcons team still had some great talent on it… the difficulty of that year was more focused around 2 people – Vick and Petrino. Devastating stuff, but it’s not like the entire team was a disaster. The disaster came from the fact that the small number of people with all the drama surrounding them happened to be the two positions of leadership.
It was a matter of making some perfect hires in just a couple of spots, and that’s what happened.
With the Panthers, I think a lot more work has to be done to get them where we got in 2008. And yes, Cam could be good… but I think he could just as easily be a huge bust.
by cheshire falcon on Jul 27, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Damn I thought we were talking about OSI.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 4:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
11.5 sacks and 10 forced fumbles....
In my book a FF is better than a sack.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 4:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree Cam is a boom-or-bust.
The Panthers of last year also were talented. Maybe not as much as we were in 2007, but they’re talented. Steve Smith is still a good receiver, and Jonathan Stewart/DeAngelo Williams (who got hurt last year) are arguably the best one-two punch in the entire league. Their DL, as has been noted, was not bad. Their LBs, when healthy, are solid as well. Their secondary isn’t so hot, though, as is every receiver not named Steve Smith.
They had absolutely zero QB play whatsoever last year. It was downright ugly. We had a revolving door of Harrington, Leftwich, and Redman, who has shown he can play at a decent level. Redman would’ve started for the Panthers last year, easily.
While I think the Panthers are worse off than we were in 2008 before we knew what we had, I do think that they could see a significant win increase. Possibly even going .500 if all their cards fall right.
I don’t expect that to happen, but I have to be optimistic as an NC resident.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The Falcons were extremely lucky
Bobby Petrino could have stayed.
Parcells could have said yes.
Josh McDaniel could have said yes to an interview
We could be talking about Tony Sparano having to win, could we win with Chad Henne or Kyle Orton?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by FrozenFinger on Jul 27, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not a big believer in luck
but hella stars had to align for us to have it happen the way it did.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Luck exists
It’s when skill meets opportunity
by FLA_Falcon on Jul 27, 2011 6:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I had to think about that for a moment.
I like that statement a lot. haha
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Ray Edwards wouldn't be a terrible idea.
Abe may not be Jared Allen, and Babs/Jerry may not be Williams/Williams, but I’d be willing to bet that our DL isn’t so far behind theirs that Edwards couldn’t be productive.
But I think Ray Edwards is (not literally) insane. Isn’t that what peoples’ problems were with him?
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
as a defensive end, it might be the most important thing you can have.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
from following on Abe and Edwards on Twitter
They really don’t seem that different, personality-wise. They’re playas and don’t give a flip what other people think about them. Edwards may be a little more outspoken to the media, but so was Abe when he wasn’t happy w/ his contract situation.
I laughed at a tweet Abe had when the lockout was lifted.
Something like “No rookie better try to make the team on me, I’ll kick his ass. Ain’t nobody makin’ the team on me.” I was amused.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
So who will the Falcons look at for DE
Please don’t let them sign Ray Edwards. He is truly overrated and will want a huge contract.
by !AtlFalcons-fan! on Jul 27, 2011 5:23 PM EDT reply actions
Geez, our division rivals are signing folks like it's going out of style.
Panthers have signed CJ, DWilliams, Olindo Mare (kicker), and James Anderson (LB). Also Ben Hartsock. That name should look familiar. Also they’ve signed former KC DT Ron Edwards
Saints have signed a couple of their late draft picks as well as resigned Lance Moore.
Bucs have signed Quincy Black as well as a couple others, if I remember right.
We’ve signed Nicks. That is all. haha
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 5:23 PM EDT reply actions
TD and Nicks FTW:
Stephen Nicholas: 5 Years/$17.5 mil
TB’s Quincy Black: 5 Years/$29 million deal; $11.5 million is guaranteed.
Wow.
I wonder if there was less interest than reported, or if Nicks just took a discount. From that interview it sounded like TD’s promptness was the thing that won him over
In interview with DOL
Nicks only mentioned TB as the other suitor. That doesn’t mean that they were the only ones. But still, if TB gave Quincy Black that, you have to imagine Nicks gave up some $ to stay in the A
I think
resigning Nicholas was smart. He’s not a superstar, but with MIke Peterson aging and Dent being a little rough around the edges it makes sense. We will have a very solid LB corp for the next 5 years.
by Whyte Bler 000 on Jul 27, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I also just red about Babin
same issue I had with Osi. But if he can come cheaper and even maybe a 1 or 2 year deal, it might not be a bad move. At least we wouldn’t be breaking the bank on a huge gamble.
And I cannot beleive what Carolina paid CJ. I guess that is a product of being at what 50 million (give or take) under the cap. 102 million dollars over the next 6 years. If he isn’t putting up double digits every year, it will be a waste of money.
Well I can say this:
At least or FO believes in this group of guys and have gone out of their way to show it. The continuity will pay off, maybe not as much as we would like but it will.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 6:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
babin, kiwanuka, osi, edwards
I want Osi!!! Babins old I’d take him for 2 years tops. Kiwanuka isn’t that great but it would be an upgrade for the line rotation. Edwards a pain in the ass he wants big $ and isn’t worth the tag. I’d take him only for the right price. Idk what we’ll do but we need pressure!
by DEMBIRDZCUZ! on Jul 27, 2011 6:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Osi's way more consistent and wont be 30 until november.
Babin is already 31 and just had his best season. I’d give Osi a 3 year deal with more faith then babin
by DEMBIRDZCUZ! on Jul 27, 2011 7:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
agreed
Due to the lockout, I think this season will resemble last year a lot. I think the teams that were good last year will be good again this year. there will be a suprise team or 2, but I think this year kinda follows last years script, except of course the team that wins the SB will be different, since our Falcons will finally take that last final step and bring home the Lombardi trophy to the dirty dirty!!
by ATLsince1972 on Jul 27, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I may have said my "I told you so's" a tad bit too early
Ray Edwards is back in the picture after the Falcons failed to persuade Charles Johnson to leave Carolina.
Damnit!
Oh he never left the picture.
They will check out any option that makes our team better.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 6:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It makes us have one more insane person.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Jul 27, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Edwards making us better is the same arguement as
Babin making us better. That’s a lot of possible money for guys with NO proven track record.
I won't argue with you but your wrong.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 7:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Says who?
We don’t know what Edwards would do in r&b. The central issue is that getting close and QB “pressures” aren’t as effective as actually sacking the QB. Look at the last two home losses, Falcons pressured both Brees and Rodgers but lost both games.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by FrozenFinger on Jul 27, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
We do know what Edwards will do
He’ll do exactly what he did in Minnesota……………………..wait…………………….what did he do there?
Clabo playing hardball
According to John Clayton:
Just checked on Tyson Clabo. Atlanta is still apart from what Clabo would like so it will take a day or two
Clear that he wants to see hard offers from other teams, at this point.
I hate it but I can't blame him
he is arguably the best RT in the NFL right now and he wants to be paid like it
know what you believe in and why you believe in it
I understand him wanting to get paid
but as a fan I hope the FO isn’t waiting for him to answer them before talking to Snelling, Blalock/Dahl.
definitely
it would be terrible to lose all 3 of those guys trying to convince Clabo to stay. Snelling, as much as I want him to stay, could be replaced, as well as one of the other OL. But to lose all 3 would be devastating (especially if in the end, we don’t get Clabo to resign).
by Whyte Bler 000 on Jul 27, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
no joke.. please dont shoot me but i traded Abe and a first for Jared in Madden 10 a few years back… and he ended up with 13 sacks on the year with sidbury on the other side..
by falcolicmsudawg33 on Jul 27, 2011 8:31 PM EDT reply actions
Top 5 reasons I think we should sign Babin right now
1. A good chance he will be cheaper than the other big name DEs, and won’t have to sign a long contract, which means much less risk.
2. We still need to resign Grimes, Clabo, and possibly Snelling and Blalock/Dahl.
3. We have a lot of big time FAs next year to resign, so a long term/high paying deal could hurt those re-signings next year.
4. What was the number, 10 forced fumbles, a fumble is even better than a sack.
5. we could release JA98 and have an upgrade at DE, or release another over paid under performing DE.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Sign Babin to a short deal and give him a decent signing bonus.
not quite
babin will be inexpensive, and whos to say he can’t have another good year?
by falcolicmsudawg33 on Jul 27, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
and...
we dont need the greatest sack machine known to man… we just need a guy who can be get a sack here and there and can play well against the run! so that defenses dont know when we’re trying to bltiz
by falcolicmsudawg33 on Jul 27, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
That is true and well said
but if the person we get isn’t on average better than what we have why should we sign them?
Babin should be realtively inexpensive, you’re right. He was paid $1 million last year. If he’s take 3 million it might be worth it.
Babin should be realtively inexpensive, you’re right. He was paid $1 million last year. If he’s take 3 million it might be worth it.
That’s what we’re saying. No one’s saying go give him 10 mi/year for 5. We need more production, period. It won’t hurt the team to have Biermann and Babin. If one does great, awesome. If they both do marginally, great, that’s the production of one solid starter.
I see your point
and appreciate it. I just don’t see Babin as an upgrade, and isn’t that what people have been asking for?
indeed
but people aren’t the gms. It’s very rare to have two stud rushers on a team (a la Mathis and Freeny). But, what we do need is a serviceable pass rush on one side. Which Biermann has started to develop, frankly, but getting him help shouldn’t hurt.
like i said
I believe we can get him without overpaying or breaking the bank. And see in the meantime if Biermann can develop into a real threat. I think what we have done with Abe, and extending his career, we can do the same for Babin. And go from there, if we need to sign someone next year and/or draft a DE in the 2nd round, we do that.
The point is, we don’t have to take a big risk on Edwards (who wants a big meaty long-term contract), and worry about overpaying another defensive player only to have minimal impact. It makes sense from both a financial and personnel aspect.
The front office can feel him out, see if we can get him to agree to a 2 (or 3 max) year contract, that doesn’t mean having to let go of our own free agents that we need. If we sign Edwards to a huge contract (since CJ got 12m a year, Edwards would be “worth” at least 8-10m) then it means we are sacrificing at least 2 OL and Snelling (assuming we want to keep Grimes, which I assume we do).
And at the end of the day we can all say the front office at least tried to fix the problem, instead of sleeping on it like they did last year.
by Whyte Bler 000 on Jul 27, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
and like the good man below/above me said
we don’t need another 12 sack season from him, I think 8 sacks would be enough to warrant signing him. If Biermann steps up and gets 8 of his own, and Abe gets into double digits again, it will be well worth it.
by Whyte Bler 000 on Jul 27, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i really like your #5...
chauncey davis… i really liked the guy when in 08-09 he churned out a few sacks (4) and was pretty stout against the run… but since then he has been a one dimensional player who (when we bring him in) teams know to throw the ball (simplistic terms i know) however he is chewing up 3mil a year… not worth it to me… and dont get me started on JA98… never liked the guy… even when he “bulked up” and played against the run better….they need to go, not necessarily for babin but for any upgrade no doubt…
by falcolicmsudawg33 on Jul 27, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
No Jason Snelling news?
Hmm. He’ll be back.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 27, 2011 8:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I would hope so
If we really are going to be passing more this year and keeping Turner fresh, Snelling would play a big part. His pass catching ability is excellent out of the back field. Plus he has the ability to pound the ball (maybe not as well as Turner, but still pretty good).
by Whyte Bler 000 on Jul 27, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not in Minnesota are you?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by FrozenFinger on Jul 27, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Because there's a lake
and suburb up there with a similar sounding name.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by FrozenFinger on Jul 27, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
To all those asking about signing Grimes
realize that he’s an RFA not a UFA, i.e, he’s going to be on the field for us this year (barring a holdout). I’m sure the FO will look to extend his contract soon, but they have bigger priorities right now.
Plus, remember it’s not a given that Grimes will want to stay with the Falcons, he might want to test Free Agency next offseason.
Anyone Wondering
why we haven’t seen any cuts yet? TC starts tomorrow, you’d figure that they would have told at least a player or two not to bother showing up. (ahem…Chauncey Davis).

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