Sam Baker Is Not Long For Atlanta
by Dave Choate on Dec 12, 2011 12:33 PM EST
in Falcons News
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PrintIn 2008, Sam Baker was a happy man.
The Falcons traded up into the first round to grab Baker as a bookend for young Matt Ryan, their new franchise quarterback. At the time, the hulking Baker was viewed as a bit of a reach, but it was generally agreed he was the last potentially awesome left tackle left on the board. I was willing to overlook his tiny arms.
Things have steadily gone south since then. After a promising rookie season, Baker has been a convenient punching bag for the fans for going on three years now. As a pass protector he's been above average to terrible, depending on the day, and his run blocking didn't quite make up for it. Yet he hung on to his starting job, buoyed by those occasional great games and the fact that nobody was really capable of gunning for his job.
Enter 2011. Baker was scuffling at left tackle until he succumbed to injuries. I fearfully predicted that Will Svitek would be even worse, fulfilling my weekly quota for looking like a damn fool. James Rael called Svitek's ascension, by the way. Instead, Svitek has played at least four great games and been at least average in a couple of others. He's far from elite, but he's looked better than Baker. That was enough to cost T. Rex his job.
So on Sunday we were treated—in much the same way a man is "treated" to eating a plate of live, wriggling insects—to watching Baker play right guard, giving him a chance to stick as a starter somewhere else while Svitek rolls on left tackle. He proceeded to melt down in a spectacular fashion, struggling to contain Antwan Applewhite and sharing the blame on the safety by not realizing Matt Ryan was holding on to the ball too long. Partway through the game, he went to the bench in favor of Joe Hawley.
Today, Baker is an unhappy man. When D. Orlando Ledbetter chased him down for a comment, Baker's response was terse. It's not a lot of fun losing your job, so I can't say I blame him.
I think this is the beginning of the end for Baker in Atlanta. He's arguably gotten worse every year he's been in the league, he has no clear starting position on this team and he's going to be disgruntled if he's a backup. After this season, I have to imagine he'll be looking for a new home. It's an ignoble end for a man anointed Ryan's paladin on the left, but then again, most endings aren't pleasant.
Do you think this is the end of Baker in Atlanta? Sound off!
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It's understandable that Baker is mad
and we’ll never know all the details as to why his play has dropped since 2008. At the end of the day none of that matters as it was his job to keep. If he does not work out at RG and leaves I wish him the best of luck.
Safe to say at...
this point he is done, but that’s just me…
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
I really don't see how ATL can keep him
He has been horrible at LT and looked even worse at RG so where on Earth would they play him if he remains on the roster? Its almost comical seeing a 300 pound man get bullied on the field the way Baker does. I don’t hate the guy but we ABSOLUTELY cannot play him or we might as well get used to seeing Chris Redman and John Parker Wilson under center.
Baker gets Manhandled
And half the time it doesn’t even look like hes on the same page as everyone else. He was just embarrassed yesterday.
What could they have gotten for him?
Very little, would be my guess. Probably figured it wasn’t worth trying.
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If we try to trade him next off-season....
other teams have now seen how terrible he’s handled adversity, they’d probably get less than they would have if they traded him before they benched him.
Definitely true
But I don’t think they would’ve gotten more than a fifth or sixth round pick for him. Not saying it wouldn’t be worth pulling the trigger on that, but they might have thought he’d come back and do something. Oops.
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Yeah
He's shown flashes …to support the idea that he’ll come back and do something. Come on Falcons!
If we could get anything for him, it'd be a plus over just cutting him.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Dec 12, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
They clearly wanted to see if he could work at RG
Maybe they give him another chance with more time to prepare, or maybe an injury forces him back into the lineup. But barring a spectacular resurrection in the final few games of the season, I agree that he’s not long for Atlanta.
Jeez, at this point...
a 5th round pick would have seemed like a bargain. I mean, we got Bosher in the 6th round! (I’m just kidding; at this point I’m sure you know I think we should have picked Bosher with our last 7th round selection) But really, if we could have traded him for a fifth round selection, I believe that would have been as high as we’d expended an OT pick since Baker.
But this (I think)...
might have a little “pride” issue going on with it. No one wants to admit failure on something as highly publicized as a first round draft pick, especially one you traded “UP” to get. It’s not as if he wasn’t talented or didn’t have the skills to succeed…he did. Then why didn’t he, you may ask? Well, if I (or anyone else for that matter) had the answer to that then we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation as he would be the “stud” we all want(ed) him to be.
Could be he was over-drafted, could be he is lazy, he possibly thinks he knows it all already and is un-coachable, or possibly “wasn’t” coached effectively (this one actually has merit), was scouted improperly (over-valuated), or just simply couldn’t handle the pressures of professional football (unlikely, but it is a possibility). We could go on and on with this kind of speculation as I am sure any number of you fine Falcons faithful could add to this list even more.
What’s my point you ask? Well, it just didn’t work out…for whatever reason. This team needs to take care of “this team” and if he is a piece that isn’t fitting then off he goes (unfortunately, with little to no return on investment). But, we can’t keep letting our Franchise QB get murdered back there and that’s the bottom line!!
There is (also) the very real possibility that we release him and he is picked up by a team with the sole intention of being a backup and turns into a stud starter (and wouldn’t that just piss allot of us off here…including me).
From what I have read and heard, he is a good dude and if he is gone (and probably should be) I wish him the best for him and his family…and that’s my thoughts on it…
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
by Blood_Talon on Dec 13, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Well the rams got a 7th rd pick for Barron
So I assume we could get some value out of him. I also thought he was a reach. I thought brown was a better option and he was still on the board. I just he doesn’t what everybody does when they leave us and become a stud.
by pierre02 on Dec 12, 2011 5:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cut him now.
That last game in the second half, something happened to that team. They suddenly got it. They started feeling their way through their potential. I don’t think they are going to regress from this, and having Baker pouting in the lockerroom is not conducive to this environment. So cut him now, sign a versatile FA lineman, and we’ll see if my theory proves correct and that the team continues this brand of football on Thursday.
Not So Sure
The problem is not just Baker, it is Baker, Reynolds and Hawley. Right now we don’t have a good guard.So, you do ya play? Thank goodness Svitek is working out and why haven’t we been playing him the whole time????
We had a great, nasty guard that we let walk. Thanks TD. Under TD’s reign the OLine has gotten less love then any other position (save the failed reach for Baker) and now it is catching up.
This.
Our offensive line across the board is weak (not individual players, per se, but in total). I’m not sure how offensive lines are ranked, but I’m assuming we are down on the list if one exists.
When was the last time we had a dominant left tackle? Is there any option for next season, or is Svitek the long-term solution? I know we certainly won’t be able to draft a LT (guessing based on our draft position), but we need address the line, not just at the LT position. (We ALSO need a center and a guard…)
As for Baker, he’s done in Atlanta.
GATA!
I believe the front office will do it's best to find both a LT and RG, especially
since we’ll have more time for them to gel during off-season workouts. As I said before, my first two picks in the draft would be left tackle and right guard. So far Baker, Johnson, Reynolds, and Valdez have not panned out. In other words, linemen that TD have picked have not been good.
Not sure about this
How has drafting O-lineman worked for us recently? Sign some capable free agents and let those guys develop.
Alot of guys are coming off the books next season so we may have to use those picks to fill their spots, although I do believe there’s no way we let Lofton and Douglas walk.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
The over ridding misconception about the OL
was that it was a good OL before Dahl left. It wasn’t. It was better with Dahl but it was not a great by any means.
by mwalex on Dec 12, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Certainly Not Great
but a good solid line. Much, much better than this year.
by Whopper Dawg on Dec 12, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
it was either
Clabo or Dahl. If we signed Dahl Clabo would have walked and Reynold would have started at RT
it was either Clabo or Dahl.
No, TD decision. He could have kept both.
by Whopper Dawg on Dec 12, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
It's all about the money
According to TD, we couldn’t afford to have that much money tied up on the line. The cap is looming this year because we still have to get Grimey signed long term. Developing OL takes time because the players have to gel. The new guys will eventually get it or get gone.
by BlueFender on Dec 13, 2011 8:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would like to say that maybe this adversity will make him angry and get him to play like in his SC days but
I just don’t see it. I think we let him walk and scoop up a compensatory 3rd rounder. Let’s just hope he doesn’t Lincoln Kennedy us.
Julius Peppers was worth a 3rd.
Baker is most definitely not going to net us a 3rd. I’d be happy with a 5th, but I doubt we get that much (he’d have to be a starter somewhere). It’s much more likely that we get a 6th.
True, but I think we'd get more back letting him walk than actually trying to trade him
3rd is definetly a pipe dream. But 5th is possible. What did we get for Houston?
What did we get for Houston?
We dealt Houston for the Lion’s 6th round pick in the 2010 draft (this ended up being Shann Schillinger). The teams also swapped draft picks in the 5th round. We did draft Dominique Franks in the 5th round, although this pick may have come from another trade with St. Louis…there are so many draft day trades, it gets confusing. So I honestly don’t know if we got Franks as a result of the Houston trade or not.
In addition, we got a conditional pick in the 2011 draft as a result of the Chris Houston trade. This ended up being Andrew Jackson in the 7th round.
When the season started everything could walk through our line. When we Baker was injured Svitek stepped up and has been playing better than Baker. That series when Hawley when down, I was hoping that he would come back and in a hurry if Baker stayed at the tackle postion we probably would’ve given more sacks and wouldn’t have left Matty Ice with time in the pocket
So we picked up
Brett Romberg, and guard/tackle Kirk Chambers and neither one can play guard? Why would they insert Baker in the line-up anyway when things were working out fine on the line as it was. Not sure if I understand that.
Romberg and Chambers were inactive Sunday.
I’d expect to see that change Thursday.
by FLA_Falcon on Dec 12, 2011 4:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Baker will be around in 2012
because his salary is relatively affordable and he offers continuity along the line, even as a backup, something sorely noticed after Dahl’s departure. Plus, with the large number of Falcons who will be free agents in 2012, the team may not be in the mood to jettison Baker in the last year of his rookie contract especially considering how few draft picks the Falcons have to find a better alternative. However, if Baker wants a future after next year, given the Falcon’s penchant for versatility, he better dedicate the off season to learning how to play guard and to increasing his strength.
Considering Baker’s and Garrett Reynolds’ poor play and Hawley’s erratic performances, it makes me wonder if Paul Boudreau’s magic has worn off.
2 million
for a backup ain’t what I consider affordable. With the tough decision this team has to make with Lofton, Abraham, Decoud, Gonzalez, McClure, Grimes, Peterson, Snelling, Biermann and Douglas all being in the final yr of their contracts I seriously doubt the Falcons are going to be able nor willing to play Baker 2 million dollars to be a backup. Baker has not played good enough to even be a backup much less a 2million dollar backup. Svitek is getting paid less than a mill to be a backup tackle why would Baker be worth twice that amount?
No that can't be right
The Cap “hit” would be his remaining pro-rated Signing Bonus/ guaranteed money. I can’t find any details specifically about a Signing Bonus, though. All I can find is the same 5-year, $13.5M, $7.8M guaranteed, but it doesn’t break down what portion of the $7.8M was “bonus” money, and what was simply guaranteed salary (which should have already been paid). If I’m understanding it right, his worst case scenario Cap “hit” would be $1.56M (one-fifth of the entire $7.8M).
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I don't know if its right or not
got it from a website that said his cap hit for 2012 was the same as his last yrs salary. 1.9 or 1.5 only 400,000 difference…. does that change what you would do in his case? I doubt it would change the teams mind in any way. If they think he’s garbage I doubt 400,000 dollars additional hit will make them say OK keep him.
I'm afraid the Abe decision won't be that hard.
I’ll bet he will still want premium money, but he’s no longer a premium player. Probably looking at Ray and the Beer Man next year with Sidbury and younguns behind them.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Biermann a free agent next year
An we should let him go.
by pierre02 on Dec 13, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking he had one more.
All depends on what he can get money-wise, I guess. Dude ain’t making much right now.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Regardless of the money
Hopefully we all realize Kroy Biermann is NOT a starting caliber DE in this league. His place is in a rotation(3rd or 4th string) and special teams right where he is. I would start Sidbury over Biermann….way more upside IMO.
Duane Brown
I remeber watching the draft and seeing atlanta trade up to get him, i wanted them to take duane brown who is now starting for the texans. Why because at the time they said baker was a good LT who would be injured alot, while brown was an avg LT who will start every game, but cant change the past, hopefully we find a solid LT in the draft or sign one, and a C would be nice oh and a RG maybe a RT too lolol…
Since he is still on contract
I think we should bring him into the preseason for sure next year. He really hasn’t ever played guard until yesterday so why don’t we give him an offseason to readjust and see how he does in training camp and the preseason. If we becomes a personnel issue then yes cut him on the spot because we don’t need any of that but if he can embrace his new role at guard (and not suck at it) then I have no problem keeping him.
This seems reasonable...
but doesn’t he get some big contract bump for next year? If that’s the case, I’m off even his OG bandwagon….we can get better value from even a 6th round pick, and if we ever have to play against him, we know exactly how to get our underperforming DEs to whatever QB he’s trying to protect.
Were lucky if we get a bag of chips for him.
This guys terrible…dont remember that,he was ever good. He was hurt his rookie or sophmore year maybe both but hes def gotta go. I would take the highest draft pick offered.
by Bigru3 on Dec 12, 2011 4:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
OK I thought
Baker could play guard but it does not look like the case, at this point. I assume the guy is practicing at the guard position before they throw him on the field. Coach said the decision to put Baker in at guard was made earlier in the week. Pretty sure they told him in advance. The problem with Baker at guard is the same one he has a tackle…he quits on the play. The guy has proven he can be a decent football player but for whatever reason he just does not have the same identity the rest of the line has, to play to the echo of the whistle. Baker’s mindset has to change or he will not be playing for any team in this league IMO.
Big missing piece with our o line
Is ovie mughelli. I know he isnt really an offense lnemen but in my oppinion he was the most imortant player to the team outside of a skill positon, and even more important than some of them.
What he means to this offense is crucial. He made every o linemen look better than they actually are.
by icon3127 on Dec 12, 2011 5:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
It's weird, but...
This is the first player discussion i’ve ever seen where the fate of the entire season could hinge simply on whether you put the guy in the lineup. I mean we’ve seen plenty of discussions where “this guy isn’t great at ” or “that guy needs to perform better for us to have a chance in this game”… but with Baker, everytime you put him on the field right now, the odds of your franchise QB having a season ending injury just go through the roof. And when that happens, the season is over.
So I don’t think it’s a question of how much longer he’s with the team… I think it’s a question of the literal danger you’re putting your entire organization in if you let him play a single snap. As incredible as it is, it’s gotten that bad, and Sunday’s game proved it.
Either way, priority #1 in the offseason will have to be rebuilding the O-Line. Which I think Dimitroff will do well.
by cheshire falcon on Dec 12, 2011 6:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The Baker Factor
New Stat. It could be like….probability of your QB getting hurt per OL.
Could be on a scale of 1-100, each OL’s Baker Factor (BF).
So like….Baker would be 100, and the best LT would be like 20.
Sounds awesome. Let’s do it.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Dec 12, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know...
seems a little harsh…was he really “that” bad of an OLmen??
I don’t think so but what do I know…
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
by Blood_Talon on Dec 13, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
His remaning time span in Atlanta is about as long as his geico little lizard arms!!
Goodluck!!!!
Atlanta Superbowls
by Atlanta Superbowls on Dec 12, 2011 7:21 PM EST reply actions
Falcons have an abysmal history drafting OLs recently
Other than Baker, haven’t expended a top 4 round pick on an OT since 2006 (picked Garrett Reynolds,OT, #5 in 2009, Quinn Ojinnaka #5 in 2006, and
by randomaxe on Dec 12, 2011 11:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
oops
Frank Omiyale #5 in 2005). Have an even worse record with Guards…I mean, Martin Bibla? (#4 pick in 2002), More recently, A. Jackson is still trying to prove himself, Mike Johnson is injured, Hawley is struggling, and Blalock (2nd round in 2007) is our only consistent performer.
This.
"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox
by DopeFalcons on Dec 13, 2011 12:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's not good
Falcons need a consultant on OLine men for our system.
by brotherbrown on Dec 13, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
The Falcons got Garza a few years back
and now he’s a starter in Chicago. It just takes time to develop some players.
Blalock, at least, was an excellent pick
But not an OT, so I get your point.
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i'm sure it's
the ego of the Front Office not to admit it was a mistake drafting him.
Trying to get everything out of him
What they got to realize that us as fans don’t really care as long as you admit it because we will question it the more you hide mistakes. We are all human. Accept and move and and we’ll forget faster if you act on it faster.
I'll go slightly against the grain here
I think Baker sucks, and I think this post is about how horrible he is. But I’d like to turn your attention to some of the things that contributed to his collapse in the Carolina game. Sure, many of us here thought he was a subpar LT, but we wanted to see how he performs as a RG. the thought was that if he does well in the new spot, why not keep him in our Oline?
and when we saw how he played RG and gave up a sack-safety, we all concluded that he doesn’t belong in this team – frankly, if he didn’t give up that sack and played slightly better, we wouldn’t be discussing this matter. in no way am I defending him – he is the weakest link in the line, but he wasn’t the only person responsible for the mess:
- it started with Weems boneheaded decision to let it go on the punt inside our 10 yd line. he could have fair-caught it. I’ve been defending Weems for a long time, but some of his decisions pin us deep in our territory and we struggle.
- then came the infamous run-run-pass sequence from Mularkey. come on, everybody knows that when we’re at our goal line they’ll have Turner run up the middle.
- on thrid and long it is easy for any defense (unless it’s BVG defense) to shut down our passing game.
in other words, baker was miserable, but he was’t the only person responsible for the sack, although he might be the one who gets the axe.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
by Gemini-RU on Dec 13, 2011 4:36 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
I get what you're saying
But there is no excuse for getting blown up by a 29th string DT
by FLA_Falcon on Dec 13, 2011 7:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
DT, even if 29th string
is paid to get some pressure up the middle. it was Baker’s first game at RG, and if I’m not mistaken, he wasn’t in this position to start the game. I blame partially his skill set, partially lack of awareness (it looked as if he simply let the DT go not knowing Ryan still had the ball), partially… bad luck. he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. now, WHO is responsible for creating this unique situation that challenged him is a different issue. what we have is that the challenge proved to be too big for him to overcome. sometimes, though, it might make sense to get rid of someone with bad luck, however cruel it may sound.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Rec'd
You’re absolutely right. I laser-focused this post on Baker because of the uniqueness of his situation, but there were a lot of things that led up to the safety. Also, he WAS playing RG for the first time in his professional career.
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by Dave Choate on Dec 13, 2011 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
true
I was kind of surprised that they inserted him in a crucial moment. was something wrong with Hawley?
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
I think they just wanted to roll with him and see if he could play guard
Given that they’re all but ceded the LT job to Svitek.
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by Dave Choate on Dec 13, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Great post
and you are spot on. Baker was just the last step in a terrible process.
I would also be hesitant to gauge Baker after one game at guard.
like I said above
he was in the wrong place at the most inopportune time, which is bad luck. but sometimes you get rid of someone with bad karma and things straighten up.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Many others have posted this at one point or another this year...
We lost Dahl, Tyson Clabo’s nasty next door neighbor. Who did we insert to start with? RGGR, a guy who has practiced at RT his entire career. OG and OT are far different positions.
RG has been a revolving door, and throw in some issues at LT, as well as the couple games that McClure missed with injury, our OL has been a hot mess. That is the only place on the field where the whole has GOT to exceed the sum of its parts.
Svitek has been a pleasant surprise, and a shining example of how it takes time for OL pieces to develop. TD has been spending a lot of mid round draft picks on OLinemen, I think in the hopes that some would become starter quality, if you just hold onto them long enough – sort of like the Sidbury experiment.
I’ve got to think Garrett Reynolds has stuck around as long as he has because he’s a damn fine RT, just not as good as Clabo. I think Baker has stuck around for a similar reason, until recently, he’s simply been better than Svitek, and there weren’t any obvious options. If Baker can’t develop some flexibility to play RG (they talked about cross-training during the SEA/StL game with OLinemen), he probably is toast.
Not only did he give up a safety
to an OLB/DE playing DT, but on the next drive he let a defender waltz right pass him on a screen to Turner who got tackled for 5 yard loss on what was already 2nd and long. I believe that was the last drive for Baker.
The collective mindset of Falcons Fans...
was much, much different 4 months ago: http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2011/8/16/2365967/am-i-the-only-one-worried-about-sam-baker
Call me a visionary.
There must be several
visionaries here then LOL. Sam Bakers performance has been in question for quite some time now…certainly long before 8-16-2011. But nice article though.
No...
not really, after reading thru the posts from the link you posted, everyone really just had a “wait and see” approach to Baker. Everyone was pretty much acknowledging he has played below expectations (but injuries could have been the culprit) and that they were hoping that this would be his year to shine…clearly, than didn’t happen!!
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
too early to give up on Baker at guard
Don’t think 7 plays is enough to judge whether or not someone is capable of playing a position. He’ll get the offseason to learn the RG position, may have to win the job to stay on the roster next training camp.
Maybe...
depends if TD wants to get a better Guard in FA. Can’t really use the Draft as these guys take a year or two to develop. Not saying don’t pluck one in the draft if it falls our way but that won’t solve next year.
"I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl." - Joe Jacoby, formerly of the Redskins
"To win, I'd run over Joe's mom too." - Matt Millen, formerly of the Raiders
"We now have exactly the same situation as we had at the start of the race, only exactly the opposite" - Murray Walker, Sportscaster
sammy boy
I think Sam will be gone. Hard to play at this level with a bad back.
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