Optimism or denial?

by mwalex on Dec 10, 2011 12:12 PM EST

I want to start off by saying we are all on this board because each and every one of us are Falcon fans, win or loose. Now that the disclaimer has been posted let's have a good discussion.

As fans we pull for the team regardless of record or performance. There is no right or wrong way to support the team. There are posters that are the bastions of optimism and those of us that are always pessimistic, even in the face of the best wins. All of that is what makes this board great and the "discussions" engauging.

We are into the fourth year of the MS/TD era, or experiment, and the results are interesting. The first year was amazing. The second was effected by injuries but we had two winning seasons in a row! The third was a 13-3 record and #1 seed in the NFC. We were devasted by a loss to the team that would eventually win the Super Bowl. At the beginning of this season there were ideas of a 14-2 season with a championship firmly in the cross hairs. While not out of the question we are a little shakier in that outcome due to the team play this season and some untimely injuries that have popped up as of late.

Now here is my question to the board, where do we go from here as a team?

At the end of last season the idea was that ATL needed more explosive players on both sides of the ball. They have been added and there have been marginal improvements in the teams performance. The run D has improved nicely and that has been due to Ray Edwards on the DL but also Spoons early stages of coming of age, good Safety support has helped also. The pass D is the same as the past few season with the exception of a poorer pass rush this season than last. The offense has struggled with identity and consistency all season with no solutions being apparent.

In the past there have been comments like:

"Chris Houston is terrible he should be cut!"

"Jenkins can't catch a cold, cut him!"

"JA98 is the worst defensive lineman in history! Cut him!"

Interstingly those players have left ATL and are having good season with their new teams. MJ's catch rate is 69% which is much higher than when he was with ATL. Houston was/is DET's best DB and is playing much better now than when he was in ATL. Looking at the numbers maybe JA98 was a bad example.

Last season and this season we are hearing:

"We'll never win a SB with Matt."

"JJ is a bust or not worth the expense."

"We won't win a playoff game when MT has more than 20 carries or MT is done."

"RW needs to be traded while we can get something for him."

"DR is a bust!"

And there are plenty of others that could be included. Here is my next question or questions.

If ATL has that many terrible or underperforming players what is the cause? No team has elite talent at every position. One variable all of the players have in common is coaching. Is this a function of weak or poor coaches and coordinators? If not does ATL have a knack for picking up and keeping poor players? If that is the case isn't it a function of the coaches and front office?

What say you Falcoholics? Going forward can ATL build a championship caliber team by swapping out a few key players or does the coaching staff need and overhaul? If an overhaul is in order to what extent?

This FanPost was written by one of The Falcoholic's talented readers. It does not necessarily reflect the views of The Falcoholic.

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Good read, mwalex

I think first of all we all need to accept that it’s hard to win week in and week out in this league. Some teams make it look easy (Packers, even the Saints), and I think that’s what we want from our team, and also probably expect from our team, but I think we have to take a step back and admit to ourselves that we’re going to lose games. Iw That’s a good Texans team we ran into last week and you have to remember that QBs like Dilfer and Grossman went to the Super Bowl. I’d personally take Yates over Grossman.

Does that excuse us losing to a rookie QB? Well, no, but I wouldn’t exactly call that game ‘losing to a rookie QB’, either. We had a ton of miscues and their D was able to stifle us long enough for them to get a meager lead and run one of the best backs in football right at our face. I was as sick as the next guy when we lost that game, but I think with some of the injuries/regression (in some areas) we’ve had this year, I think we just need to admit it to ourselves that we have problems that need fixing that we can’t (or won’t) fix right now, namely the way we use personnel.

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by Caleb Rutherford on Dec 10, 2011 9:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

The case of the Texas game is a good example Caleb

At this point in the teams progression ATL should be able to beat HST with Schaub at QB, Andre Johnson at 100% and the #2 D. That is the issue for me.

I agree 100% with your last statement. I just hope the problems get addressed and fixed after the season. Even if it might be at the expense of JAX.

by mwalex on Dec 10, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions

I agree we should win those games...

…however every good team sometimes drops games to teams with less talent (and I wouldn’t even say that about HOU; the TB loss is definitely our worst this season in that regard).

The 5-11 Cards (lead by Max Hall) beat the 11-5 Saints last year. The 5-11 Browns the 14-2 Pats. 2009 the 3-13 Bucs beat the 13-3 SB champs from New Orleans.

With the exception of the TB-loss this year, we have never, in 3+ years lost to teams with losing records, so we are one of the most upset resistent teams in the league. Teams with less talent doe not surprise us easily (even if they do surprise us enough to inexplicably stay in the game much longer than we want them to…)

That of course, does not change your argument at all: We should beat bad teams, good teams with rookie QBs, good teams with equal talent and great teams better talent.

Heck, why can’t we beat all teams for once?!? ;)

by wiesengrund on Dec 14, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions

i remember people

being down on Spoon now he is having a pro bowl season. Its way to early to give up on JJ. Also all those guys doing better now maybe its coaching or just a scenery change

by Erihury on Dec 10, 2011 10:08 PM EST reply actions

agreed

remember, everyone wanted to burn Bosher at the stake 6 weeks ago too. JJ will be just fine.

Now Gentlemen, get your butts up, and get back on that horse! You have no choice. The expectations are running much higher this year.

by ATLsince1972 on Dec 12, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions

The reason

Houston, JA98,and Houston are having better seasons is because the schemes they are in now let their natural athleticism come through.Under the schemes that MM and BVG have in place totally hold players back .These, from what I have seen over especially the last two years, are the main reasons we have not seen this team take the next step forward toward a championship.

by Birdie4Go on Dec 10, 2011 11:02 PM EST reply actions

Is JA98 really having a good season?

18 Tackles and 1 Sack on an 0-13 team. He’s a back-up, but you’d think that with a rotation of Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney he’d be marginally better.

I’d pick Laurent Robinson and replace him with JA98. Dave knew it too in his article about him. The kid knew how to play. It’s inexplicable how much a change of scenery affects players. I would have to think it would be the scheme. One thing I continue to think is that Chris Houston is a disciple of the DeAngelo Hall train of thought. Yes, he’ll make amazing interceptions but he’ll get burnt just as many times if not more.

Ron Artest = Ron (sm)Artest - He Is The Most Interesting Man In The World

by JoshChildressAfroIsCure4Cancer on Dec 12, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Well, I did digress

and say that JA98 might have been a bad example. Earlier in the season he was looking better.

You could be right about Houston but he is still playing better now than when he as a Falcon.

Robinson is a very good example, especially this season.

by mwalex on Dec 12, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions

JA98

Looks much better than Biermann this year. JA was a force against the run whereas Kroy constantly gets pushed out of position as well as whiff on sacks when he gets the chance. Both look to be career back ups at this point, but JA certainly could have filled in with us this season.

"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox

by DopeFalcons on Dec 13, 2011 9:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

I think there are adjustments to be made

Ideally, Mike Mularkey would be replaced, but I’m not sure who is out there that would be a visible upgrade. Potentially Norv Turner. Open things up a bit and mix in some creative play calling. Don’t be so conservative.

I don’t think they need to replace Brian Van Gorder, I do think they need to figure out whether his blitz schemes can lead to a quality, sustainable pass rush.

There’s a lot of free agents this year, so you have to sift through and see which ones have struggled because of the scheme and which are just struggling, period. Make your signings on that basis, because you won’t have an awful lot of draft picks to work with.

by Dave Choate on Dec 11, 2011 9:44 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

OC

Will Turner be available? Will the Bolts cut him? I remember someone saying a while back that Gruden was an OC guy at one time…would he be available? Billick? Or should we go for an old OC guy? Maybe look at the rank and file positional coaches and use one of them…a guy out of nowhere like we did with MS. Of course, my wet dream would be P Manning retiring and saying “I want to help the Falcs”.

And my lolhaharofl of the day yesterday was finding out Mora is now at UCLA.

Dont cloud the issue with facts!

by muuzilla on Dec 11, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions

Potential OC candidates

I doubt Turner or Gruden will step down to OC positions. If anything, Turner will take time off before taking another position.

I think our best bet is to get a young OC – we don’t need a big name, just someone that will take chances and be creative.

Remember, Mike Smith was a no-name coordinator at one time.

by The DW on Dec 15, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions

These are random comments

I will add random responses…

“We’ll never win a SB with Matt.”
Um excuse me? You are sadly mistaken. Matty ice is the real deal.

“JJ is a bust or not worth the expense.”
JJ is a beast and he has proven it lately. Please retract this statement.

“We won’t win a playoff game when MT has more than 20 carries or MT is done.”
Turner is having a great season and just wnet over 1000 yeards for the third season in a row.

“RW needs to be traded while we can get something for him.”
Ricky Williams??? uh, I dont think he plays for us.

“DR is a bust!”
Dunta is not very good at times. I will give you that. He plays too loose in man to man and often gets beat.

Life is a garden. Dig it!

by Hardcore Falcon on Dec 12, 2011 2:49 PM EST reply actions

Keep in mind

those are not my comments. I was repeating recent posts.

RW is Roddy White. If we had Williams the club house would probably be happier.

by mwalex on Dec 12, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions

mwalex

Good post, pretty much sums it up. You should be out here in San Diego and listen and read the stuff that’s been going on with the Chargers…

Evil Falcon

by falconplanet on Dec 12, 2011 3:24 PM EST reply actions

nice topic of discussion mwalex...

I am going to say that I believe first off it needs to be a coaching change at OC. We have very good talent that just doesnt get put into the right positions to succeed in my book. MM’s offense is predictable, slow, and cannot afford mistakes by any players or negative yardage plays. I honestly think that we succeed despite MM just because of the great talent we have on offense, NOT that we succeed on offense because of our great playcalling , thats for damn sure. I think with a more innovative and varied OC that our offense really could be great and compete with the Saints and packers offenses.
Secondly, we need a couple of good o-linemen. Or one great one and a good one for back up duties. That may end up being the key free agent we pursue in the offseason, since we don’t have a first rd pick to get a great starting o-lineman in the draft.
Of course there are other needs we will need to address – another DE? More DB’s? and POSSIBLY EVEN REPLACING TURNER! Yes I said it, replacing Turner. But I think if we make those 2 changes at OC and another very good o-lineman, that may be enough to get us where we want to be. The rest of the team will have another year of experience, plus a full offseason and training camp too. Never underestimate the value of those either.

Now Gentlemen, get your butts up, and get back on that horse! You have no choice. The expectations are running much higher this year.

by ATLsince1972 on Dec 12, 2011 7:55 PM EST reply actions

I agree across the board

I think ATL should spend a high pick on a OL this year or pick up a stud in FA, heck, do both.

I also thinl ATL needs to seriously consider what to do about the TE. TG looks great this year but he can’t play forever. Palmer is still an unknown regardless of the reasons why.

You know, I’m pretty comfortable at DB. Franks has talent but needs playing time. Walls could be a diamond in the rough.

MT’s replacement is a good idea. It will take at least two years for a new RB to become the starter.

by mwalex on Dec 12, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions

Turner's replacment

If we wanted to expedite that…Marshawn Lynch is a free agent and he runs hard like Turner with higher top end speed and much much better hands…

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Don't teach a man to fish, and you feed yourself. He's a grown man. Fishing's not that hard.

by Schuang0385 on Dec 12, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions

Replacements...

I agree on getting a stud lineman, if any are available. Although, I tend to think some of this will get better after a full off-season. The OL has improved as the season has gone on, but it still needs dramatic improvement if Ryan is going to take the next step.

As for TE, I’d love to see us line up TWO guys. We need someone like a Gronkowski or Graham. I think Ryan misses Peele more than we realize – he was a good option when TG was doubled and had good enough hands to depend on.

As for MT, I do think he’s almost used up. The work load we have put on him has been huge and I’m not sure he’s going to be the same back he was in 2008. I, however, think we already have our future back. Quizz reminds me of Ray Rice – small stature but powerful legs and great hands out of the back field. He’s already shown flashes of being a fantastic back and he’s surprisingly good at picking up blocks, given his smaller size.

by The DW on Dec 15, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions