Here's A Crazy Thought: Why Don't The Falcons Get Kerry Meier Involved?
by Dave Choate on Oct 12, 2011 7:30 AM EDT
in Falcons News
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PrintSecond straight day with a passing game-related post. I'm a man of obsession.
I could bring out the Michael Turner argument, because Turner has been absolutely abysmal over the last three weeks. On 53 carries, he's averaged only 2.8 yards, an average so anemic it makes vampire victims look robust. But there are a lot of factors going into Turner's issues at the moment, and I'd like to see how he fares against a piss poor Panthers run defense before I go down that road.
I'm here today to talk about Kerry Meier.
You'll recall that Meier looked pretty good in pre-season this year, his second in the league. You're all familiar with Sunshine's story, and it's a remarkable one. He lost his brother during his days as a Kansas quarterback, reinvented himself as a wide receiver in the NFL and was doing great things in practice in 2010 before suffering a season-ending injury. To his eternal credit, Meier fought back, won a roster spot and...well, here we are.
In an offense that's thrown the ball quite a bit thus far in 2011, Meier has been an afterthought. His targets have been eaten up by Roddy White, Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez, and to a lesser extent the running backs. There's been table scraps for guys like Harry Douglas already, so why would Meier get a look?
Two reasons spring to mind. The first, of course, is that Julio Jones may miss the Panthers game, leaving his targets for Douglas and guys further down the chart. The second is that Meier deserves them, at least based on pre-season action.
What he brings to the table is this: He's a tall guy with quality wheels for a possession receiver. He's sure-handed and pretty athletic. Above all, he runs his routes with an attention to detail, something every receiver getting significant playing time thus far has struggled with. Meier isn't going to blow anyone away with his speed, and for that reason he sometimes struggles to get separation. But this offense needs a guy who can battle for the ball and keep his grip on it, especially right now, and Meier's a solid option. Any help is good help.
Now, I'm not naive enough to think that Meier is any sort of panacea for the team's offensive woes. I just think that the Falcons need to start trying to use every weapon at their disposal, and Meier certainly qualifies as one. If Jones is out, I'd like to see them keep Douglas in the slot and make targeting him a priority, but give Meier some snaps outside. He may do good things with them.
What say you, gentle readers?
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Good read and Great point
I’ve said this before. I’d like to see the Falcons utilize ALL of their weapons a HELL of a lot more often than they do. When other teams gameplan for us, doesn’t MM think that “Hey, our primary weapons on offense are MT, RW, TG. Maybe we should spread the ball around more!” Well, DUH! I JUST don’t get why we DON’T spread the ball around. Case in point. Last weeks game against GB, Arod targeted and hooked up with atleast TWELVE different receivers. Hell, I had to look at their roster to see if they even HAD 12 different receivers (TE’s, RB’s included of course). I mean it’s idiotic to believe that we can be “deceptive” on offense if we run the SAME offense week after week. So The first half of the GB game was AWESOME. Where the hell did the offense go after that? I mean it’s AMAZING how aweful we look at times. It’s seriouslul baffling. The legitamate weapons we have on offense where in which we COULD spread the ball around, say like a GB, New Orleans, Colts (w/ Manning @ QB) and the Patriots (When they don’t Wes Welker you to death), are White, Gonzales, Turner, Quizz, Meier, HD and even at times Weems could be used in the slot. MM is NOT creative. If he is, it’s like he’s scared to try something new and different. Or maybe he thinks that they team couldn’t grasp his new scheme within a weeks time or something. WhatEVER it is, he or someone needs to do SOMETHING. FAST. PLEASE MM. SPREAD THE BALL AROUND!!!!
I think this 1 is on Matt
If you put the WRs out there its on Matt to get them the ball. He doesn’t know how or is reluctant to spread the ball around. The offense would be way more effective if he did.
You may be right pierre..
..but the play calling should, at the very least, take into account other weapons too. You’re right. Matt SHOULD go through his progressions, (1st read, 2nd read, 3rd, etc.), then maybe other receivers would be utilized. But THAT opens up a different discussion. The lack of time he has to throw the ball due to lack of protection from the OL.
I think it's on Matt too
I just think he doesnt have the arm to give us a legit deep threat. Also, he’s really just not all that accurate of a passer. He’s incredibly smart obviously and knows the game as well as any QB in the league. Honestly, he’s just not an accurate thrower of the ball. I think we may need to face the music on this one.
I think his accuracy is good. You don’t complete nearly 60% of your throws and not be called accurate. Its his decision making, long ball accuracy, and progession that he needs to be address.
I think his Accuracy is fine
But like you said its about progression, finding the open guy. He also tends to stare down his targets which makes it easier for DB’s. But, not having trust in your OLine is probably effecting all of that. We thing for sure unless, Quizz, HD and Meier become significant parts of our offense, and if we don’t “fix” Baker, we will continue to struggle.
I had said the same thing before the Green Bay game
I thought that since we were facing a team that was 4-0 at the time and wanted to make a statement – MM would utilize Meier and Jacquizz more because Green Bay was unfamiliar with them in our offense. Boy was I wrong! MM used them less and made the game 1 dimensional again. The Front Office has to be taken notice and need to let Mike Smith stop taking responsibility for MM and BVG half assed play calling!
by Antonio Grimes on Oct 12, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Off subject
But a loss to Carolina (no longer a gimme) could be more hurtful than we realize with how things are shaping up in the NFC, especially the NFC East and NFC West where the division winners and second best team in those divisons could end the year with the same record. We’ve already loss to maybe two possible wildcard teams in Chicago and Tampa Bay and an early 0-2 hole in the NFC South behind the Saints (who we still have to play twice) could be too much to bounce back from. Let’s face it, we won’t beat the Saints twice and we’ll probably cough one up to Cam Newton and the Panthers who are playing good football, add to that we’ve already lost one game to Tampa Bay. Mathematically at this point things are looking rough, a loss to Carolina Sunday and dark clouds will form especially with playing the Lions (who are roaring louder than ever) the following week. If Atlanta finds a way to lose to Carolina Sunday and Detroit next week, by November there won’t be much left for the Falcons to play for, unless of course the Saints start dropping games they’re supposed to win and the Bucs get blown out every week………not likely. It’s time to rise up Falcons, the time is now.
Every 1 in the NFC has improved
And what we did(on paper) seemed great but in reality isn’t clicking yet. I love JJ and his pick up was great but TD messed up big time. I would much rather have Dahl than Blalock and I think the only reason he kept the Blalock was because the LT isn’t that good. I would like to see President Jax get a shot off the practice squad to see what he can do.
It's probably due to finances
It’s easy to play arm-chair GM, but TD had to make a decision that took into account who he had on the roster, who they were developing and how much money he had to spend. I miss Dahl, but I’m sure there many reasons that factored into his departure over Blalock. Plus, Blalock is very good in the run game and he will get better in pass protection once he doesn’t have to cover for a new starting center and a weak LT.
As for Jax – I think we’ll see him eventually, but rookie linemen are normally a very big liability. I’m sure Boudreau is getting him up to speed as fast as humanly possible.
But assuming we win
Were 3-3, 1-1 in the division, and right bak up there. I don’t in anyway think we will win the South, I think the saints will at 12-4, with us AND Tampa finishing 10-6 (haven’t gone through to see who would win that tie breaker). No wild card will come from te west…I’ll bet my entire bank account on it. the lions will be the 1st wild card with 11-5, and the East will have Philly at 8-8, Giants at 7-9, Skins at 11-5, and the Boys at 9-7. So the wild cards would be Detroit and either us or Tampa. I had a lot of time one day and went through the schedules of all those teams haha. I cautiously had us sweeping the panthers (barely winning Sunday), dropping ones to the saints, lions, and texans. An hey, maybe we get lucky and beat a team like the texans or lions? The lions game will be huge for the wildcard.
by dirtybirds233 on Oct 12, 2011 10:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think the South is going to send 2 teams
I think the North is going to send 2 teams and the East is going to send 2 teams. We would be left out with a winning record as did Tampa last year with 10-6.
Not sure about the East
Right now Washington would go, and I’m not certain they’re going to hang on. The Giants are so injury riddled, it’d be amazing if they finish above .500. The Eagles have the talent, but they’re still in total meltdown mode. And Dallas just doesn’t look like a team that can finish anything better than 8-8 at this point.
Exactly.
Like I said below, washigton could win this division at 10-6.
by dirtybirds233 on Oct 12, 2011 10:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cowboys will win the east
I think the lions will cool down and unless the eagles get on track that leaves the a spot for us. I knew we wouldn’t win the divison this yr but I do hope we at least get a wild card spot.
Playoffs, You're talking Playoffs???
Tampa, Lions, Redskins, Dallas, Giants are all ahead of us. I know its early, but until I see a pulse from this team, I’ll steer clear of any mention of playoffs.
But who does the east have?
The giants are 3-2 but are absolutely riddled with injuries. The eagles are 1-4 and we already have a tiebreaker over them. the cowboys have shown nothing yet (like us) and are like the giants, injury plagued…though no where near as bad. Then the redskins at 3-1, they could probably wi. The division at 10-6. The NFC east is notthe powerhouse it used to be.
by dirtybirds233 on Oct 12, 2011 10:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah but..
The Giants are good. Injuries is nothing new to them. Even during their Super Bowl run they fought through injuries. Giants and the Skins are going to go from the East. And Detroit and GB is going to go from the North. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if East sends one and North sends 3 with the Bears making it through since they hold the tie breaker over us.
until we actually win two in a row
talking about playoff hopes is just a pipe dream. The Falcons have yet to show they’re a .500 team let alone a 10-6 one. I hope they turn it around and start beating the pants off their opponents. Until they actually start doing that though, it’s just that, hope. A lot of the goodwill and trust built up over the last 3 seasons has evaporated, not because of their record but because of the way they’re playing. Because their making the same mistakes over and over again. The definition of insanity is making the same mistake over and over and expecting a different result. Until somebody shakes the players and coaching staff up, this team will keep failing.
This team kicks ass.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Oct 12, 2011 9:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Ryan needs to trust his recivers
I was looking at the first year as compared to last year and this year.That first year he just threw it up there and Roddy and company went and got it.Big difference now.Its like he is trying for the perfect pass every time.He needs to trust the recievers to get the ball.
by JT131 on Oct 12, 2011 9:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
But yes The team needs to trust who they have put on the team.They are just too conservative
by JT131 on Oct 12, 2011 9:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I second this
I whole heartedly believe that we are too conservative from the coaching standpoint all the way down to Matt Ryan.
What about the trusting his O-Line
Aaron Rodgers struggled a bit when Clifton was hurt. But after halftime he trusted them and he lit us up.
You can trust your O-Line
as much as you like. That doesn’t make them better. And besides…why should he trust them?
by Gallant Gambler on Oct 12, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It was just an observation
I saw during the Packers game. If you don’t trust them then you are further shortening the time you have in the pocket. Its already a quick time there but not having faith in your O-Line will gets you a little antsy.
How long are we gonna tolerate Baker?
Is there not one lineman on our team or practice squad that isn’t hurt that could do a better job that this clown??
He was battered during the Eagles game
But he may be a solid RT than LT. But he is all we got. Gotta face the music on that one.
Not a fan of Baker
I think he’s better suited to RT but I noticed Clabo was committing a number of penalties and missing blocks in the GB game. It seems like everybody has two left feet, t-rex arms and walnut brains this year.
I have another question for everyone
Since Eric Weems could not return the ball on punt returns in almost all of Atlanta’s games. Why didn’t MM use Eric Weems in the offense to give Matt Ryan another target?
He did get a couple of looks...
in the first half and caught a pass or two (I know one for sure).
April 1974 - Tug McGraw, when asked if he preferred grass or AstroTurf: "I don't know. I never smoked AstroTurf."
So your saying in the last 5 games that Atlanta has had
Eric Weems was only involved in the offense 3 or 4 times?! That would be another weapon for Matt Ryan. Since everybody is kicking the ball in the endzone and he is unable to return the ball – you utilize him in another way and give our offense more weapons.
by Antonio Grimes on Oct 12, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Weems = HD
The problem is Weems is essentially the same as HD on offense. They’re both very fast, but I think HD has an edge.
I see what your saying
But the thing is that we need to put out more weapons that the other teams can defend. Think of what would happen if we had, Weems, Meier, White, Jones, and Gonzalez all on the offensive line. White, Jones, and Gonzalez are going to draw double if not triple coverage which get the other 2 guys open.
by Antonio Grimes on Oct 12, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
we can't possibly
have so many receivers on the field at the same time – or we’d keep only 3 linemen to protect Ryan.
but having som form of rotation would help.
I have a feeling there’s a problem with that, and seeing that Ryan locks in his favorite targets RW, TG and JJ validates that point. someone who actually attended the GB game mentioned here that Ryan failed to spot open receivers downfield on more than one occasion.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Rodgers completed passes to 12 guys
Ryan to 6.
I know
I’m saying you can’t have so many receivers on the field simulatenously.
the Pack did a good job of rotating receivers and also throwing to RBs
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
actually, isn't that just an empty backfield 5 WR set
with TG taking the place of one of the WRs? Not saying I’d use it or not, but it is possible.
He's also in an offensive scheme that allows that
Ryan is playing in a scheme that is determined to run it on first down and is limited in creativity and passing options.
Why is weems on the team?
His roster spot could go to a President Jax or another WR. IMO HD is a better return man anyway. He was great his rookie season. I don’t think Weems is a good enough dual threat to take a roster spot. Plus with the new kickoff rule he really isn’t productive anyway.
I've seen Weems on the field with the offense more than that
It may just be that he is not a good route runner or good at getting separation or that Ryan just isn’t looking his way. Both very good possibilities. If Ryan can’t find HD, who is a better option, then there is little chance he will be looking to get Weems involved.
I think Weems is overated
I don’t think he is that good. He would be a really good nickel corner. But this coming up game is going to be a way for me to really judge. I think he overachieved last year but I am hoping I am wrong.
Meyer's a big guy
Why not put him out there in MM’s typical 3 TE sets instead of Reggie Kelly or Palmer? At least that will give Ryan the option of calling an audible that changes the formation and match-ups.
Of course it is easy for me to say. I have no idea if Meyer is capable to line up as a TE and block if asked to.
Not quite big enough
Meier could definitely run the TE routes and has sure enough hands to take the passes in linebacker territory, but most of the multi-TE sets that MM runs are run-only formations. It’s somewhat rare that they pass out of multi-TE sets.
You're right
he’s listed at 220 or so. Not big enough and likely hasn’t seen any practice time at that position. I thought, based on seeing him at training camp and live in the pre-season, that he was the same size as TG.
Like the Pats do with Hernadez
Line him up as a TE, bump the DE, and go out for a route. Meier could line up at slot as well in short yardage packages since he is pretty big for a WR and just let him set in the soft spot.
Meier is too small to play TE
Every TE needs to be able to do some blocking, especially as poor as the OL is playing, and Meier would get killed.
Agreed
I was mistaken thinking he is as big as a TE. How about MM stops running the 3 TE set so often? It really limits the options Ryan has to make changes at the line.
That would assume MM can change
Given the interview he gave after the loss to GB, don’t count on it. The guy is truly an arrogant blowhard.
by The DW on Oct 12, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or at least in the red zone
He has great hands and plus he is big enough to post up in the zone. Or even trick plays(MM SAY WHAT!?!?). Yes trick plays. He is a former QB and could do some throws on reverses or out of the backfield.
MM needs to go
I have grown to have a strong distaste for him. At times he calls some of the best 10play drives. Then for the rest of the game it seems as if he calls the same plays over and over again.
On an earlier thread I asked about using Meier as a TE.
To me, it would add flexibility and unpredictability. I know he’s a bit small for a TE at 220 but I thought he showed he can block.
One of the great questions Dave
I think it has a lot to do with how many WR’s are in the play. Sunshine gets in one 4 WR sets, maybe, unless Weems get’s the slot. Weems, by the way, in my opinion, is of no use to the team, as a returner or WR. Meier should move up and take his spot on the depth chart.
The other issue is I don’t know if Ryan is reading through all of his progressions or if the plays even consider the #4 WR. I think the plays are so scripted that Matt forces the ball way too much. Who knows, may be Matt can’t identify alternate WR’s.
by mwalex on Oct 12, 2011 9:45 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree on Weems
At this point, I think we should be giving Dominique Franks return duties, as he looked spectacular in the preseason and he offers more to the team in the long run. And I agree, Meier should be moved up the chart, especially since he’s one of our better route runners and has great hands.
Matty making reads
Matt did a good job last year of going through his progressions and getting the ball to #3 and #4 options quite a bit. I suspect the terrible OLine play has impacted his comfort in making those reads.
by The DW on Oct 12, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its hard to blame Matty
But I think he gets too obsessed with going to his fav three: jones, gonzo, and roddy
I don't see an issue with that
Gonzo has the best hands on the team and an amazing route runner. If I were Matt, I’d find Gonzo on third downs as well. As for Roddy, he has amazing timing with him and he knows he can count on his route being run perfectly. And for Jones, he knows the breakout speed he has and is looking to exploit that.
by The DW on Oct 12, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Im not saying its bad they're great options and QBs would kill to have them
But obviosly it isn’t working. We are 2-3. And our offense isn’t taking off like we had hoped.
I think the schemes aren't helping in that regard
The first two drives against GB did a great job of putting the ball in the hands of quite a few players. THAT is what I want to see each week.
I think the reason Ryan has gone to them so much also has to do with the scheme and lack of time to progress his reads to the #3 and #4 options.
by The DW on Oct 12, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thats a great point
It also could be that he may rush his progression as well. He doesn’t trust his line. What I believe is that he goes to 2 reads and if they aren’t open he hopes his third read is open and is either an incomplete or dropped pass from Roddy.
Good points DW
but here is the issue about not hitting on deeper alternate WR’s. By not hitting the 4th or 5th option once is a while the D can play off those receivers. By going to Meier a few times a game, in critical points, not some stupid three yards pass on first and ten, it will keep the D honest. It will also take pressure off the other receivers.
Right now D’s can focus on RW, JJ, and TG. MT has shown he can catch this year and has a 15 yard per catch average!! Even with those numbers he is averaging only 1.2 catches per game. What it boils down to is that the O is busted.
by mwalex on Oct 12, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its also called the Madden Syndrome
I feel that Matty Ice is only going through those progression and them only. And if when two are on the same side of the field it only hurts his reads even further.
Oh, ultimately I agree
I’d love to see Meier and HD finally get utilized in the 15-25 yard area. Those plays are backbreakers for defense and forces their safeties to play outside of the box, which opens the entire offense up.
I'm not blaming Matt at this point
I think he’s a very good QB, more than good enough to win a SB. My comment was just a “devils advocate” thing.
I think you're on to something here
The #4 offense has never gotten much play in this offense. Hell, the slot receiver has struggled for targets at times. Meier’s going to have to climb the depth chart or count on injuries to get more snaps.
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mwalex
Great point on the reads/progressions. Some of the Football Outsiders guys have noted recently that while he’s great at identifying defenses pre-snap and knows where his first read should be, he’s not able to improvise when the play breaks down or his first option isn’t open (besides a dump-off). That’s not even brining up the fact that there are so many, like you said, “scripted” plays where there really is nothing behind option #2: 1) the “let’s take a shot deep” on first-and-10 between the 40’s, max-protect, only 2 guys in the route; 2) the bootleg, where there’s pretty much only a high/low option on one sideline (unless he comes to a full stop and fires it all the way back across the field); and 3) the third-and-short, 5-wide-shotgun, everybody runs a 5-yard curl; and on and on.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by orang3b on Oct 12, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And all of those things point to one issue
A poor scheme – which in turn points to our OC.
It’s time to move on from the Mularkey days.
Then what happens
We pick the underling thats within the family of conservatives. And next year we are back in the same boat. I think we have always been conservative and will always be conservative. We need to get someone from a whole diff scheme. Not the ground n pound and air it out on 3rd and longs. We need the Sean Payton esque type of offense.
Go outside the Org
I agree that we don’t use a Mularkey underling. We need to rethink our offensive philosophy completely.
Offensive Transformation
I know this won’t happen, but I honestly would like to see us make an offensive transformation. Turner has just become the least explosive running back I have seen. There were at least three times against GB where we ran an Off Tackle (intentionally letting the LB come through the middle as is the design) and the hole was open at the off tackle and Turner simply did not have the quickness to get to that hole like he needs to.
I would like to see us use Jacquizz a lot more, similar to the way the Saints use Sproles and a lot of other teams do in the NFL now. I would like to see us use him as a space back and have him more involved that Turner whether it be in the run or pass. I think Turner’s work load should be reduced to maybe 10 carries a game, goal line, and short yardage situations. What does everybody think?
Quizz will develop with time
But he’s still very green, and he has to learn more of the playbook before he can be a focus back.
As for Turner, he’s still a very good back – the problem has been the lack of lanes being produced by the offensive line. Not to mention the fact that defenses are stacking the box on obvious run formations and downs – limiting his effectiveness.
I’ve been watching a lot of the tape, and I think I’ve seen a different problem than the line not opening lanes. It seems to me that the lanes are there where they are supposed to be. Turner just can’t get to them. We’ve seen him be successful when he is able to get to them, but he has 5-10 carries a game where he gets stopped at the line simply because he is too slow for the progression of the blocking scheme.
It seems to me that criticizing MT is a no no on these forums. lol. But yes he is losing a step and he has faded a lot faster than we had planned for. Maybe mortgaging our future for Jones has hurt us in drafting a back. Ingram would have been available. If we didn’t trade everything but the kitchen sink for JJ.
Criticizing MT is fine
if the criticisms are based in reality.
How does anyone know that MT has lost a step? Does anyone have his 40 times for the past three years? No. His best runs against GB were on the outside. You still have to be pretty quick to pull that off.
Also, what is “faded faster than we had planned based on”? It’s not his numbers. It’s not his performance for this season, even with a crappy OL to run behind.
There are three things that hurt MT – bad OL blocking, predictable play calling and not seeing alternate lanes. The last is on MT but that assumes there alternate lanes to be had. BAsed on the fact the ATL’s OL is one of the worst run blocking lines in the NFL this year I doubt there are alternate lines.
Ingram, wow. MT’s DVOA, DYAR and effective yards are all HIGHER than Ingrams. That is even with Ingram running behind the second best run blocking OL in the NFL. If you think Ingram would put up numbers even close to MT in the terrible schemes and poor OL blocking then you’re fooling yourself.
by mwalex on Oct 12, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yep...
what ^THIS^ guy said…rec’d
April 1974 - Tug McGraw, when asked if he preferred grass or AstroTurf: "I don't know. I never smoked AstroTurf."
MT is 29
Had a load of carries the past 3 years. Would wear out even the best of them. Turner was decent but anyone with that amount of carries for our team would yield same results. He is fading and he is fading fast. Yes our O-Line is struggling but that doesn’t mean its all on them. The holes are there albeit smaller than last year. When you are losing a step the holes seem a lot longer than they once were. I urge you to stop spatting off stats and watch the film instead. His longest run on GB was 15 yrds thats not very far.
I think we all know that MM has got to go about the playcalling issue.
And dare I say yes to Ingram. Rookies tend to struggle first year outside of CJ and AP. Ingram will be a good back for the Saints. Just a timing and hitting player peaks.
rec'd too
Ingram appears to be a decent RB, but you also have to keep in mind he plays in the team that can score points in bunches with its passing game. anyone playing NO wants to stop the pass first, and that opens up a lot of holes for the running backs.
they’re kind of what we wanted to be this season – with all sorts of receving threats that ultimately pave the way for running the ball.
going back to the reasoning for MT’s lack of success, I agree with all points, except I think #1 reason is still playcalling.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Eh...
In all honesty it could be a combination of all reasons we listed. Its just that we all have egos and like to be right and sound smart. Its just hard to say its an absolute one thing although I believe that MT better days are behind him.
And we all agree MM is killing us.
well well
it’s not just the ego – I actually admit that MT’s brighter days are behind him. and seeing a huge run from him these days is more of an anomaly than seeing a 2 yd gain.
but the thing is, for all the struggles he’s probably going through, MM is not making his life easier by his playcalling. how many times did you see Ryan handing the ball to Turner (likely on MM calls) even when there were 8 men in the box?
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Ryan has options
If the first two drives were any indication is that Ryan has full rights to change plays. So I don’t know who to blame anymore. LOL
To an extent
In the huddle offense, he can change the play – but not to anything he wants. He typically will have a couple of other options that are built into the “script.”
It seemed
to me that he checked from a run to pass and vice versa when he was doing his famous ALERT ALERT. but you may be right, he could very well be checking down to a Plan B or C.
I read an interview with Mike Smith
And he described the scripted sequences as having multiple options that depend on what the defensive formation is, what down/distance it is, and field position. So, I imagine Ryan has some options, but he’s probably limited by what the “script” dictates depending on all of the variables above.
AH
Do you think he will ever get Peyton Manning rights?
I would like to think he does. But he hasn’t put in the Peyton time in yet. He is only in his 4th year. Would be awesome though.
that's his only chance to succeed
worst comes to worst, if he fails then we’d know it wasn’t on MM. LOL.
looking at the success that other young QB’s have enjoyed (Stafford, sometimes Freeman) it’s hard not to ask “what if”
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Peyton began running the offense in season 3
So, I do think he SHOULD get that right, but I think Mularkey is hesitant to give it to him because it would fully expose his weakness as an OC, should Matt run a highly productive offense.
If thats the case
Then that would be great. MM needs to go.
question is
I always thought decisions of this caliber are made somewhere higher than the level of the OC. and if we are correct in our assessment that Ryan calls better plays on the field, I wonder how that escapes the FO attention
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
40 times for RBs are misleading.
How many times does an RB run 40 yards in a game? Once? Twice? How often is that in a straight line? Probably never. I’ve seen Turner get run down from behind, which is something that, from what I understand, used to not happen. I don’t need numbers to tell me that someone has slowed down if someone used to not be caught, and now they’re getting caught from behind.
My biggest complaint with him is that there are clearly holes one gap over that he refuses to run into. I remember one play in particular where he buried his head into the back of an OL even though there was a running lane the size of Texas not 2 feet to his right.
He’s getting tackled in the backfield a lot, mostly because the OL is bad, but RBs still have a responsibility to try and make guys miss. Because of his running style, he absolutely can’t make anyone miss. People just fail to tackle him. That’s great and all, but sound defenses will eat him alive. A McCoy (or even a Quizz) type makes people straight up miss them, which can make something out of nothing. Can’t say i remember Turner making something out of nothing much this year.
Our backup, Snelling, is a slower, bulkier Turner, who thankfully can catch the ball. There’s no change in how he’s defended, and Quizz hasn’t been used enough for people to care.
And I’d be willing to bet that NO’s run blocking stat is so good because everyone’s terrified of Brees’s arm. Not to say their OL isn’t good, but I bet that stat’s inflated a little.
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by Caleb Rutherford on Oct 12, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
you're right about NO
another reason for their success is how they’re rotating their three RB’s.
would it be herecy to say we need MM to go get some training in New Orleans?
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
NO is good cause they have great coaches
As much as I hate the saints there is no denying they have a great staff. Payton plays to win and creates opportunities for ALL of his skill players. Sproles has been used great in NO this yr.
not to mention
that Payton calls offensive plays himself. that kind of saves NO fans from unnecessary debates as to whose fault is playcalling.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
It makes me sad
When I see other RB from other teams hit home runs. And we get excited to see a 6 yrd run. I haven’t seen enough of Quizz. To say that he is the next guy or not.
And the fact is that NO runs the ball fairly well whether or not you plan for the pass. They are a good complete team. Which is something we don’t have.
I feel the same way.
I’ve said it a few times over the past few weeks. Turner was great when we needed him in ‘08-’10, but he’s not what we need anymore. We need an every down back like LeSean McCoy. I’d love to get LaMichael James, but we have no first round pick this year. Hooray!
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by Caleb Rutherford on Oct 12, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Its true
Well I wouldn’t say we have no chance. Going off of what we did last year, maybe we trade back into 1st round for the next drafts 1st and 2nd round picks. Obviously kiddng, I hope we learned our lesson that trading 4 picks for 1 player is never worth doing and it doesn’t fix the down field threat because of MM. He needs to go.
that would be cheap
we can use Cris Collinsworth words as an add – we have a guy who knows how Dom Capers thinks
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Yea, I honestly think that Quizz could turn out to be that guy for us. He has showed a tremendous amount of promise thus far. I understand not giving him the majority share until he is more comfortable with the book, but he has performed really well with what we have given him so far. Yet for some reason, his work load decreases last week?! I don’t get it.
Turner was great, I love him. But unfortunately, I think he is sometimes making our run blocking look worse than they are at times. Like I said, there have been times when Turner just couldn’t get to the holes that were there.
Would have to wait until bye
If there is going to be an overhaul like that I would have to suggest that we would have to do that during bye week. Getting Quizz more in the game would be nice. Are you suggesting using him like what Alstott was to the Bucs.
Gotta give Quizz another yr
I think he is just what we need but the lockout hurt. I think he will speed up in time.
Ya know..
.. I just thought of this analogy. First off, I think you’re right. But my analogy is this.
It’s as if MM is a kid who has “new toys” to play with and doesn’t want to break them nor does he know how to use them (JJ. Quizz & Meier), his “nice looking” toys to play with, but uses them here and there because he’s scared someone else will like them and take them (HD, Snelling & Weems), but his “durable”, “dependable” and “favorite” toys to play with (White, Turner & Gonzo) because he KNOWS they will keep him “entertained” and they have lasted this far and he’s familiar with them.
you might be right
but here’s a slightly difference view.
MM prefers to run MT up the middle on early downs for these reasons:
- We have to use the run to set up the pass (in some very successful games like the one against BAL we did the opposite)
- Turner is a power back who can break tackles when u run him up the middle, and it’s easier to drop him if he makes MT run east or west
and by the time he realizes two runs failed, it’s 3-rd and forever. will he ever call a play where Ryan throws to Meier or someone of his caliber? not really – he has more trust in RW, TG or (now) JJ. Ryan is also the one to blame, because of his inability to spread the ball.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
MM did have one play that was different
When JJ took the handoff and ran for about 15 yards. Everything afterwards was vanilla…Turner on 1st, Turner on 2nd, Ryan on 3rd and Long.
that was one of the plays
I was looking for. they ran those in preseason, then… simpy forgot. there was one instance when they tried it (don’t remember which game) and JJ was tackled for a loss
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
You're assuming someone other than TG, RW or JJ is open
Or that they’re even in the formation. I’d say half of our formations involve either two TEs or two RBs, which means the number of times another receiver is available is limited.
that;s what I'm saying
we have so many 3rd and longs that they get only tested weapons on the field. and no room for Meier
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Sending Kelly out there is no help
He is here for blocking or what? Why is he getting more snaps than Palmer? Man i want a new OC ASAP and not in house.
why Kerry isn't involved?
two reasons….HD and Weems. I honestly don’t understand why they don’t use his height and hands to their advantage when Weems and HD aren’t working. This only speaks to the conservative nature of the offense by not using anything and everyone possible to move the ball down the field.
Atlanta will win a championship....someday
It's not that HD and Weems aren't working...
..MM isn’t utilizing them not NEARLY enought, if at all.
he's
like someone playing Madden – you learn of some plays what work for you well and can run them all over again with nearly the same success. problem is, real game is not Madden and the opposing D adjusts…
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Weems
Everyone is saying that Weems should be used more. I disagree. Our def is terrible especially in the passing game. He has his hands full. Weems is not the answer.
LOL
MEGA FAIL. Confused Weems with Grimes. My bad but still, Weems is still overated.
Yeah, I'm starting to feel the same way
but it seems like the entire team has gone hay wire this season. Weird.
Don't agree on weems...
but I do on the team just going off the radar…the wrong way. I just don’t understand it!!
April 1974 - Tug McGraw, when asked if he preferred grass or AstroTurf: "I don't know. I never smoked AstroTurf."
Couldn't Hurt
Heck, try Bosher as Safety, I’ve already noticed he is a better tackler than punter.
by Falcons1133 on Oct 12, 2011 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
When are we gonna Utilize Quizz???
This whole offense is about underutilization. HD, Quizz, Meiers, etc…they are all weapons that aren’t being used. As far as the defense, I still don’t know why Beirman is ahead of Sidbury on the depth chart. I like Beirman, he’s a nice guy, but I still think Sidbury is the 2nd best DE on this team, better than Edwards even.
Trending
I am starting to see a lot of opposing defenses playing their zones much more shallow when they play the Falcons. It doesn’t matter who is on the field to catch the ball if Ryan can’t get it to them. This offense needs to be tweaked. Ryan doesn’t have the arm to throw the vertical routes needed to stretch opposing defenses. Mularkey should do a better job in using crossing patterns and misdirection to create better matchups against opposing secondaries. Ryan’s deep ball looks terrible and I don’t see it progressing. Keep it simple and move the chains IMO.
by Christopher Wilson on Oct 12, 2011 2:59 PM EDT reply actions
He has the arm
I’ve seen Ryan overthrow our receivers on 40 yard outs, so arm strength is not an issue. However, those routes take time and that’s something our offensive line is just not giving us right now. I’ve seen Ryan getting drilled while making those throws this year – hence the “ugliness” of them.
by The DW on Oct 12, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
recc'ed
His accuracy on long throws seems to be a bigger issue than arm strength. There have been some floaters but if you’re throwing off your back foot because your line collapsed that’ll happen. I’m concerned that MR is regressing because of the poor line play, MM’s playcalling and the loss of his QB coach.
Maybe the coaches
Have lost the players. More specifically, MM has llost the O. The D seems to have bought in or stepped up or some term that applies here. But maybe the offense has tired of running the same plays over and over to no avail. Maybe they’re tired of hearing “execution” if they feel they are giving all they have to give. Its possible(likely?) That these guys have grown tired of their coordinators and are beginning to tone them out. It’s like they just don’t believe in what they’re doing. Maybe I don’t know what I’m tallking about. Maybe MM doesn’t know what he’s doing. Maybe the players know he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Maybe that’s the problem.
by birdwatch on Oct 12, 2011 3:07 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
a lot of maybes
But I like it. Its a good point. But the only people that would know for sure that the players have lost interest is the players themselves. I just want to hear an interview say that our play calling is way too conservative for the way the rest of the league is playing.
The D is fine cause they have been getting smashed by the media
And rightfully so. The O on the other hand is getting praised and to be honest they where average last yr. They still are. The reason Mike Smith kept BVG and MM when he took over. No idea. Maybe Blank likes them as people? Who cares. All I know is they need to be changed.
Its crazy how we say the D is playing well and every QB who has played us this yr has had a 60% passer rating or better. The ONLY team in the league to have that statistic. We need change now.
Unless there is a major breakdown, then we will probaly never know the answer to that one.
It does look like we have lost some passion, but a few wins can cure that. If we continue to lose, then there might just be a breaking point to where we know the truth. I know that I am fed up with MM. It is only human nature to be dissapointed in repeating the same ol things if they are’nt working. If we do continue down the road of despair, I expect to hear TG speak out publicly.
There are those
who say quizz is young and give him time to learn the book. Whats to learn? They only run two or three running plays.
Good point
PLay 1 – get the ball and turn right
Play 2 – get the ball and go straight
Play 3 – get the ball and turn left
This has been a really good discussion, guys
Props.
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I guess you get your wish, with julio out this week.
"I'm about rings now"
~Arthur Blank
by CollegePark4Life on Oct 12, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
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