The Future Of the Atlanta Falcons Pass Rush
by Dave Choate on Jul 5, 2010 11:00 AM EDT
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PrintHitting you with two discussion posts today, since I expect most of you have the day off and don't want to digest a lot of analysis today. Also, the NFL is dead right now. Unless Kerry Meier or Sean Weatherspoon ink contracts, you're not likely to see anything big hit.
So let's move right into that discussion.
We've hit the pass rush issue from a number of different angles, I know. But it's such a critically important issue for this team that I thought it wouldn't hurt to have you step back and take a look at the bigger picture.
Stats are, arguably, the single most important consideration here. We all know by now that John Abraham didn't post many sacks in 2009, which might convince you that he's over the hill and trending downward. Using more advanced metrics, though, we find that Abraham was still a pretty studly pass rusher.
But let's go beyond that for a minute. We'd all like the Falcons to know the sweet sustained success that we've so rarely seen for this franchise, so the question becomes something other than whether John Abraham was effective last year. Will he be effective in 2010? 2011? 2012 and beyond? Will he even be on the team? What about Kroy Biermann and promising project Lawrence Sidbury? What will they offer?
It's an important question because the Falcons are counting on an improved pass rush to complement their mercifully upgraded secondary. Abraham could have another great season left in him, but this team isn't building toward a deep playoff run this year and then an immediate implosion. It's entirely possible that at at age 33 and having suffered numerous injuries over the course of his career, Abe just won't be able to hold up as a full-time defensive end any longer beyond 2010. It's crucial that the Falcons don't spend a young, talented team's prime trying to install stopgaps at a critical defensive position.
So talk Biermann. Talk Sidbury. Hell, talk Chauncey Davis. Tell me if Abraham will find a fountain of youth and wreck opposing quarterbacks until the world ends (in 2012, of course). Tell me who this year's and future starters are at defensive end, and whether they're already on the roster.
Because I'm willing to bet that if the team can't put together a competent pass rush (and to be fair, we did last year), then the odds of the Falcons heading to the Super Bowl are pretty damn slim.
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Plenty of Pass Rush
The important thing about Abe is using him on passing downs. He’ll hold up a lot better and if he doesn’t even get the stats that you’d expect, show me a team that will not account for him in passing situations. I’ve been very happy with Chauncey Davis and actually thought he was given a long term contract in order to replace our other DE woes. (rhymes with Draft Pick Bust). While Kroy is stepping up big time, the general concensus is that he’s a pass-rusher and not such a run defense guy. I do love that pass-rush though. El Sid is just another young talent that is showing flares of brilliance. I think any of these guys can be full-time starters on lots of teams and don’t bring the disciplinary issues that many do. Upgrades at the secondary and depth and potentially an upgrade to an injury prone Peria Jerry may in the form of our new Kentucky Wildcat should shock a lot of people regarding our defense. If we could only upgrade our defensive coordinator now!!!! What’s up with dropping John Abraham in Pass Coverage?!?!?! Would this guy put Matt Ryan in at tailback?!!!! Use John Abraham for what he is………a beast of a pass-rusher.
While Kroy is stepping up big time, the general concensus is that he’s a pass-rusher and not such a run defense guy.
Actually, according to Pro Football Focus, Kroy was pretty stout against the run last year (and his run D value exceeded his pass rushing value).
I think...
A lot of our woes were on the interior of the line. When O-lines know they can cover the middle 1 on 1 that leaves double teams on the ends (if a RB stays to block that is). With that situation, Dwight Freeney and Michael Strahan (in their primes) would get 5 sacks each. Hard to beat the double team every time you play a down. We didnt really have an answer for when Jerry went down. I guess you can say we put all our eggs in that one basket? I think with Peters and a couple of the other guys starting to perform well towards the end of the season that we will have a line that the O-coordinator will now have to decide which of them to leave to single teams vice which to double team (instead of chosing who is the most dangerous to the QB they now have to chose who is the least dangerous) and that is something that can drive O-coords insane. And if they chose to double up on an end and the end can see that and drop into coverage for a LB, that leaves the LB (hopefully) free to blitz that open spot.
Just the thoughts of a man with too much coffee in his system on a monday morning.
we have some gud depth
But when is babs supposed to get his suspension? Without jerry I do believe we’ll be ok (lewis, johnson, peters, anderson) but without babs man that’s gonna be rough. We gotta c how it looks in the preseason if it works cool if not then maybe we do like last year with the secondary & get a vet. (Brian williams) As soon as babs returns tho it’ll be fine. Peters is a spitting image of babs he’ll probably need a lil while 2 develop
by DEMBIRDZCUZ! on Jul 5, 2010 2:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think this is an area where we're set to improve steadily over the next few years
Abe’s getting old but could still have a strong year and there’s some extremely promising young talent on the D-line. If key players stay healthy, we’re one or two drafts away from having a beastly line. I’m really hoping Spoon’s presence allows for some improved blitz packages in the near future.
How long will Jonathan Bagodope be suspended for?
Anybody have any idea.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 5, 2010 2:57 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i would imagine
that it would be 3 to 4 games. If Big Ben got 6 games i would think Babs offense would be less than that. But I dont know. We need him back as soon as possible
If peeing your pants is the coolest, consider me Miles Davis
Did he get convicted or plea out yet?
Fortunatly he’s a lower profile individual than big douche which could mean not such a severe punnishment. Goodell is a proud person that regards the leagues image as sacred. Ben is more of a league face than Bags.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 5, 2010 11:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Speaking of dope.
This little bit about Jamarcus Russell is kinda sad: http://wap.nfl.com/site?t=UNbXxGbsw4Sn.mJ1ibNZag&sid=nfl2
A little bit of codeine and his career is most likely over for sure now. Stupid just stupid.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 6, 2010 12:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Kroy Biermann
is currently my favorite player on this team (although Mr. DeCoud is a close 2nd) and I believe it completely possible that we could see a 10 sack season from him. Possible, not likely, being the keyword there. And statistics show that after Abraham bounces back after a down season. And while I’m not as high on Sidbury as I was when we drafted him, he could definitely emerge as a key player on the team. I think that Biermann is the future of the pass rush on this team.
I hope so cause last year...
Brady, Romo and The eagles torched us. I remember at one point in Dallas where our pass rush was completely innefective.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 5, 2010 5:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I remember another point
where I think 3 or 4 different defenders had their hands all over him and he still got away and threw a touchdown. Not much you can do about that.
He's a squirmy little bastard.
I hope that mma training will help them nut up mentally and handle thier biz.
Rule #1: Double tap.
by Ball Hawk on Jul 5, 2010 11:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sidbury is my pick for most intriguing player this season——really need to see how much upside he has so I hope they give him more and more snaps. Of course Biermann is my fav due to his ties to Montana, but I see his upside limited. He’s solid but a pure overachiever. Excited also about Peters after being initially negative on his selection. Overall I still think the pass rush will be a weakness so I hope we build a solid interior to help those out on the ends.
BTW: what's with the lack of controversial material?
I feel like I should be arguing with a Ravens fan or an Arkansas fan right now…
Controversy makes me shiver
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YOU KNOW WHOSE PASS RUSH I CAN'T STAND?
THE UNIVERSITY OF CENTRAL MICHIGAN. TERRIBLE PASS RUSH.
Longest Atlanta Falcons winning-seasons streak: 2008 - current
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by Jason Kirk on Jul 6, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pass Rush
The help that Abraham needs in not on the roster. Which really is a shame given that the 1 was spent on DT last year and in effect our 2 was spent on DT this year and a 1 spent on DE four years ago. We really should have an All Star Dline. I would double Abraham every passing play. There just is no doubt about it. Do that, and most times, you don’t have to sweat a sack or even pressure if you have a decent OLine.
"2 spent on DT this year"
You haven’t even seen him on the field, and you’re already bellyaching.
Longest Atlanta Falcons winning-seasons streak: 2008 - current
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"We really should have an All-Star D-Line"
St Louis Rams drafted Adam Carriker #13 overall in 2007 and Chris Long #2 overall in 2008, to team up with former Pro Bowler Leonard Little. They don’t have a good D-Line.
Jacksonville Jaguars spent their first two picks on Defensive End in 2008 (Derrick Harvey #8 overall & Quentin Groves #52 overall), plus a DT in the third round in 2009 (Terrance Knighton #72 overall) to team up with former Pro Bowler John Henderson (not to mention 4 more D-Linemen drafted in the first 5 rounds in 2010). They don’t have a good D-Line.
And on, and on. But we don’t care about them…
The help that Abraham needs in not on the roster
We do not know that. We basically have no idea what we have in Peria Jerry, Corey Peters, or even Lawrence Sidbury.
Bottom Line? Go back and look again at the wasteland that was the 2007 Roster (especially at DT). That cannot be fixed overnight. Draft picks bust. Guys get hurt. That’s just a fact of life in the NFL.
I’m just glad Dimitroff recognizes the weak spots on the team and is doing his best to address those areas – unlike (for instance) Josh McDaniels with the Denver Broncos, who inherited a great Offense & a terrible Defense… who then proceeded to totally dismantle the Offense, while signing every 30+ year old Defensive stop-gap possible. I’d take 1 or 2 bad draft picks over that any day (of course, McD does that too).
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Ya We Do
St Louis Rams drafted Adam Carriker #13 overall in 2007 and Chris Long #2 overall in 2008, to team up with former Pro Bowler Leonard Little. They don’t have a good D-Line.
So, what is your point, we are not as bad as St. Louis?
We do not know that. We basically have no idea what we have in Peria Jerry, Corey Peters, or even Lawrence Sidbury.
Well somebody better, after all we used high draft picks on them and spent a lot of money on them. And I think we do know something about them -
One stayed hurt in college and is hurt now.
One was a multi round reach in the last draft, and I have seen him on the field, he was in blue with a K on his helmet. Wasn’t impressed then and I am not now. There were six tackles better than Peters still on the board when he was drafted.
The last has potential that was unharvested when he played for the powerhouse Richmond Spiders. I can hardly wait.
If you are waiting on pass rush from these folks, don’t hold your breath. The real help you seek is not yet on the roster, but I appreciate the positive outlook.
I think the point Orang3b was saying was
Be patient, we don’t really know what our draft picks have truly yielded until a few years laters. Remember JA98 was a Petrino Pick not a Dimitroff pick, so don’t count that. We have a new conditioning coach to help with our injuries and maybe Peria can stay healthy. And again we don’t really know how much better those other DT’s were until they play because before they do, it’s all talk by unreliable sources that think they know it all. Teams like the Browns, Eagles and Ravens, good defenses were looking at Corey Peters, so we took the opportunity to snag him before he could be used against us (we play all of those teams by the way) and look at his highlights on Youtube and of course his character issue. That is what the New Falcons are about BK.
Live, .... for the possibility
Anderson
Remember JA98 was a Petrino Pick not a Dimitroff pick, so don’t count that.
Oh, he counts. He counts a roster spot, a contract and the eighth overall in 2007. He counts plenty. Now he doesn’t count on the field so much, but he counts everywhere else.
I meant don't count him as a MS and DT pick
A new regime has existed.
If you took over a new team/business would you want to be credited for the mistakes the guy before you made?
Live, .... for the possibility
Anderson II
I thought the topic was the Falcon pass rush, not what we think about players the current regime drafted/signed. If you ask me about receivers, I’ll include Roddy White in the equation. While the current regime did not draft or acquire many of the players on the team, they remain on the team, and, of course, count.
Well I was just replying to the comment you had that's all
It’s still relevant at least I thought. In this case I would give it a mulligan because of the previous regime. We are keeping JA98 because we’ve yet to solidify our pass rush with FA’s and draft guys yet. Let’s readdress this time next year and see where we are.
Live, .... for the possibility
You have no gaurantee of that
help not being on the roster. No one knows what Bierman and Sid Vicous will do this year but I bet they will have very good seasons. Peterson will get plenty of snaps this year. I’ll be JA98 will play much better at DT (the bar hasn’t been set too high in his case). Assuming that we need a high profile FA or higher DL draft to help the pass rush above what we may have this year is a BIG stretch.
The biggest thing to help the pass rush is to stop dropping Abe into pass coverage. Spoon might help with that as he’ll likely be better in coverage than Peterson.
Do you any idea about what
ATL is trying to build? Based on this comment I don’t think so:
“One was a multi round reach in the last draft, and I have seen him on the field, he was in blue with a K on his helmet. Wasn’t impressed then and I am not now. There were six tackles better than Peters still on the board when he was drafted.”
On what criteria were the other six better? Peters was a draft target by other teams and fit other criteria set up by TD and MS – smart, team player, tough and good character. On top of that Peters did not cost ATL a lot of money.
While I agree with what you said about Josh McDaniels
Perhaps his reason was for those inexplicable actions was because Shanahan’s offensive system wasn’t what McDaniels wanted or could work with. He’s putting his own Identity on it and wants to be recognized for it.
If I was a young guy with my own enterprising ideas inheriting something good, I would want to make my own success and be recognized for it myself despite the success I could have by not changing things at all. Granted he may not be successful, but time will tell. Give him 2 more seasons.
Live, .... for the possibility
I think our pass rush will be much improved this year...
because with better DT’s playing in the middle of the line, that will cause the o-lines we face to either double team Abe and then we get penetration up the middle OR they don’t double Abe and he rips the QB’s head off!! We will be better just because we’ll be healthier (at least to start the season lol) and have more depth to throw at a teams o-line. Also, our secondary might be able to actually cover receivers for more than 2.6 seconds at a time too!! With all those factors in place I don’t think there’s any doubt at all our pass rush will be much improved!!!!
Nostradamus predicts:
And lo it shall be, in the 1st year of the 2nd decade in the 21st century during the 7th millenium, that the Red and Black Birds shall prevail and take home the sterling statue made in the image of "The Lombardi".
I am hoping for a breakout year on Defense.
For the first time in… forever, both the D-Line and the secondary have been bolstered. With Corey Peters spelling him, I think Jerry survives the year. Duffburger will continue to improve, and Abes will be at least as good as last year. Combine that with our CB’s growing up AND the addition of Dunta… something’s gotta give, and that something will be opposing offenses.
The name of the game in the NFL is no longer “shut down corners”, because there just aren’t many of them – the name of the game is now being able to rotate through CB’s so they can be fresh – we have that depth now. These small improvements on BOTH sides of the equation will pay off huge this year. We did not need a huge upgrade in either DL or secondary – we needed BOTH to be a little better – and I think they now are.
Maybe JA98 can get a sack as a DT this year.
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