Who Powered Through: Michael Turner, Human Steam Engine
by Dave Choate on Dec 10, 2010 10:00 AM EST
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To understand Michael Turner's true value, you have to set aside numbers. At least temporarily.
It's easy to understand and easier to forget that football players are human beings, albeit exceptionally powerful and tough ones. Taking hits over and over, having to drag down heavy backs and running constantly—these are the things that wear out defenses, no matter how strong. And that's why Turner is so valuable.
Take the Bucs game. His numbers aren't impressive—24 carries for 88 yards—but the key turned out to be the carries. Turner was able to break some decent gains late in the game, including an 11-yarder, because he's such a load that eventually, defenders slip a little. And they were literally slipping thanks to the field condition, which didn't hurt.
Sure, Turner's best when he's cracking 100 yards on 15-20 carries and carrying eleven defenders into the end zone like Katamari Damacy. But that's not going to happen every week, and Mularkey tends to limit those totals by sending Turner up the middle over and over again, sort of like he's acting in the coaching version of Memento. But even in those off weeks, Turner's powering through, weakening the defense and setting up the pass.
That's why we're honoring the big guy this week. Weigh in.
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You complain about up the middle, but...
some of the worst plays vs. TB came when he was trying to go off-tackle. He got run out of bounds going sideways a few times.
But I do agree that it’s the carries that matter most.
Yeah...
And to wear a defense down, you run at their line, not their linebackers and DBs. Thus, going up the middle helps in the long run. It’s no surprise that Ryan can march our team down the field at the end of games when the opposing DLine is gassed…
Also, most play action plays will come off of run plays up the middle, so there’s that.
Not saying I like watching guys run into a pile at the line over and over for 1 or 2 yard gains, but the rationale is solid and seems to be working just fine. Turner is 5th in the league in rushing, and he has some bad run Ds coming up…
I also agree with atlien698 about Turner’s general skill set. He’s better up the middle. Snelling, when healthy, is better on the edges, in my opinion.
Just my two cents. But these are Euro cents, and thus worth a little more than the crappy US cents.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
by Jman781 on Dec 10, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree that runs up the middle are important
The problem is, sometimes Mularkey will waste a drive because he’s so intent on pounding Turner up the middle, and Turner’s not going anywhere. The Falcons still need to score.
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by Dave Choate on Dec 10, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
maybe
MM fears that if he quits doing that it will not be the same old Falcons anymore. They would turn into superhumans who run up the score as if they’re playing Madden. He might be thinking about TV ratings – by keeping the games close he’s making great entertainment out of games. Unless you count the potential for heart attack.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
But think of it like this
At least he sticks with the run.
Although they aren’t as effective as they should or could be…staying with the run, which is something a LOT of teams get away from, keeps our team balanced and less predicatable (when we care to be). It keeps things open for Ryan.
Other teams will abandon it and become what the Titans offense or Bears offense has become at times.
Have you noticed since this current regime, we’ve almost never been completely out of a game by feel and score with a few exceptions?
In the Mora and Petrino Era we were out of a lot of games before the 4th qtr.
Very few blowouts against our favor.
by brotherbrown on Dec 11, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
I can think of only 2 games
when we were out of it long before 4th quarter. both against the same team.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Yeah it's the Eagles 09 and 2010 08 kinda too but wh had a chance.
I was also thinking of the Cowboys in 09 as well
But I didn’t watch that game throughouly that was a busy day for me that gave me false hope.
by brotherbrown on Dec 11, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
the Cowboys game was bad
but not as bad as the Philly game… and you’re right about the 08 game – we were in it deep into 4th quarter and only referries killed us (or maybe lack of experience on the part of Smitty who didn’t save a timeout for a potential red flag)
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Sometimes
It’s so frustrating to watch Turner. If hecan get to the second level he’s such a beast, but more often than I we would like he gets stuffed at the LOS
Eh...
not so sure I agree with this. I mean, you did say “more often than I would like”…so I’m not sure how many times you would like, but he’s averaging 4.3 YPC this year, which would indicate that more often than not, he’s getting into the line and being stopped by linebackers.
by hailtogeorgia on Dec 10, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
htg, We all know that Turners yards per carry are only that high
because of exactly what lambo said. He gets those 4-5 carries for 12-23 yards each in a game, then throw in his 17 carries for 1-2 yards each, and you got 22 carries for 91 yards thus Turner gets over 4 ypc average. He gets tackled much easier by the big d-linemen because they can use their 300+ lbs to bring him down, however the much lighter back 7 guys who Turner maybe has 2 superiors by weight, cannot bring him down so easily.He outweighs 5 of the 7 and by the time he gets there he’s running much faster. This is exactly what Turner does AND somewhat how MM uses him too. If you watch the games, you can see this almost every week.
Georgia Native, Indiana Resident, and Falcon Loving S.O.B.
Yeah, thats me.
by ATLsince1972 on Dec 10, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Nice Analysis
he is not a beast..he is a locomotive..lol.
thanx
Georgia Native, Indiana Resident, and Falcon Loving S.O.B.
Yeah, thats me.
by ATLsince1972 on Dec 10, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm, I must not be watching the games then.
If you look at this past week’s game, Turner’s longest carry was eleven yards (which came on his last run of the game). He had eleven carries for fewer than two yards, he had ten carries for more than two but less than ten yards, and he had three of ten or more (two of ten exactly, one of eleven). Looking at that, it’s showing that over half of his carries were for three yards or more, while only a quarter of his carries were for no yardage or lost yardage. He’s not averaging over four yards per carry because he gets lucky and busts a few long ones, he’s averaging four yards per carry because he’s hard to take down in the backfield and, more often than not, he gets atleast three yards.
On a side note, of his runs that didn’t go for positive yardage (less than or equal to zero), only one was straight up the gut, while three went to the left end, one went to the left guard, and one went to the right tackle. Of the eight runs that had that went up the gut (I’m including between the guards as the gut but not the tackles), only one was for negative yardage and one was even. The rest were for positive yardage.
Yes, this is a small sample size as I’ve only dissected his runs for one game, but the point remains that it’s not quite as bad as you make it out to be.
by hailtogeorgia on Dec 10, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Bad? Who said I was saying it was a bad thing?????
He is an awesome weapon to bludgen an opposing defense with. And no, we generally don’t make our points with just ONE game of stats. Besides you almost made MY point with your stats. Looking at it this way – So Turner got 35% of his yards on only 12.5% of his carries and the rest of the game he got 65% of his yards on 87.5% of his carries, mmmm, a little unbalanced. Go back more games and the trend continues even further in my direction of the argument.
My point is simple, Turner crashes into defenses repeatedly all game long and eventually he will get a few long ones, but MOSTLY his carries are for 1-4 yards and of course the pounding he dishes out with them. I really don’t see how or why this is even an argument, it’s already been said he aint CJ or AP. He is a powerback- right? OK then! then he runs like a power back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Georgia Native, Indiana Resident, and Falcon Loving S.O.B.
Yeah, thats me.
by ATLsince1972 on Dec 10, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not start a war...
But what RB isn’t like that? Look at Chris Johnson, Jones-Drew and Adrian Peterson, for example. A couple of seasons ago, ADP, while a stud, led the league in runs for a loss (and let’s not talk about his fumbling issues).
Don’t have time to get a source, but check this out:
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Dude, we're just offering differing viewpoints,
we aren’t saying you’re crazy for thinking something differently. It’s a comment thread, it’s here for these types of discussions. As for the use of the word “bad”, I meant it in terms of severity, not in terms of quality. My point was that the difference isn’t as pronounced as you make it out to be.
You’re saying that Turner’s YPC is as high as it is because of the long run he occasionally breaks, and the point I’m making is that is YPC is as high as it is because of his consistent runs of 3-9 yards. His average is influenced greater by the norm than it is by the outlier.
Look at it this way: my hypothesis is that the majority of Turner’s runs are for positive yardage and are less than ten yards and this is the biggest influencing factor on his YPC. Occasionally, he has an exception and has a few runs for greater than ten yards, and on other occasions, he has a run for negative yardage. I think that the exceptions (his occasional run for 10+ yards or negative yardage) more or less cancel each other out here. Looking at this game (small sample size and all), his average was 3.7 YPC. Now, let’s do some exercises with the numbers. If you take out only his big runs (10, 10, and 11 yards), then he ran for 57 yards on 21 carries, or 2.7 YPC (a full yard below his average). If you take out only his negative rushes (-1, -1, -1, -1), then he ran for 92 yards on 20 carries, or 4.6 YPC (almost a full yard above his average). If you remove both of them, he ran for 61 yards on 17 carries, or 3.6 YPC (just .1 below his average).
My end point is that you can’t just look at the few long runs he had and chalk those up to why his YPC is as high as it is, without simultaneously taking into account for the fact that the few negative runs he had lowered his average almost equally as much. An average YPC is influenced much more by what the running back does most often than it is by what happens on occasion.
by hailtogeorgia on Dec 10, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
We will agree to disagree
Besides you can’t be that bad a person, you are a falcons fan!! lol
I just see Turner as power back that pounds a defense all day with short yardage runs but eventually gets his in the end when he breaks a few big ones, or a few medium ones and one BIG one, something like that. Turner gets his in the end. There have been at least 6 games this year to where going inrto the 4th quarter Turner had 15-20 rushes and around 50 yards or less – just round numbers I’m using – but he ends up near or over a hundred yards for the game due to busting longer runs late in the game. So in essence, Turner is as valuable to us in the 1st quarter-to set the tone – as he is in the 4th qtr – when he can’t be contained anymore.
Georgia Native, Indiana Resident, and Falcon Loving S.O.B.
Yeah, thats me.
by ATLsince1972 on Dec 10, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
pretty much what I've been saying
When people say Michael Turner is slow.
He’s a patient runner that follows blockers.
He looked fast in 2008 because he got to the second level a lot before defenses started game planning for him and psychologically we saw him as fast in his overall run.
When he didn’t get there, we would think…oh he’s slow.
A slow running back isn’t always bad, as a cornerback without interceptions.
Chris Johnson…perhaps the fastest running back in the game, can be shut down.
I think power and durability are two of the few keys for a successful running back. I’ll take that over a fast running back (because they usually try to make big plays but will often make big busts). The power to run over and stiff arm defenders and keep running (slowly) Milking the clock. Michael Turner is similiar to this. When he gets to the second level he turns on the after burners and runs for the hills.
It’s all about perception.
by brotherbrown on Dec 11, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Long time reader, first time poster...
And had to throw the shoutout to Dave for the Katamari Damacy reference…
by Gallant Gambler on Dec 10, 2010 11:28 AM EST reply actions
I knew someone would appreciate that
Welcome to (commenting on) the site!
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by Dave Choate on Dec 10, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Welcome
and also thanks Dave, the blog has been full of classy references recently.
Check out this week's Falcons best case/worst case article here.
by Turner_The_Burner on Dec 11, 2010 6:48 AM EST up reply actions
Michael Turner
Good, servicable running back. Just an observation…..he is very slow to hit the hole.
While he's not the 2008 version of himself
I think that he is the reason that this offense goes. He is the engine…the rest are just parts. Dmitroff knew this when he got him from San Diego. The guy is a beast.
by ndnpride8806 on Dec 10, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Definitely not the 2008 version
and I will disagree somewhat……….the offensive line opens nice holes again and again and he fails to get there. Don’t get me wrong….I’m glad we have him, but I don’t believe he is what makes the O go……..he is just a part. My opinion……..we would be a more dominant team with a back that bursts through those holes. That said, I’m a happy Falcons fan with what we have……….nothing is perfect.
I would like to say this about Turner...
He is so fraking frustrating I can’t stand him sometimes because of his tentativeness to hit the hole or the way he just puts his head down and hopes to get thru to daylight, but on the other hand, I love it when I see DB’s bouncing off his thighs as he tears thru the secondary with a full head of steam or when he goes head to head with a LB at the goal line and bends him backwards while saying “excuse me, so sorry, but I must get over that line now”. He is a power back, he is not the guy to run to the sideline hoping he makes the corner-he won’t! He’s the guy that keeps running into the back of his lineman until bang! he’s thru the d-line and now he looks like a bull in a china store!! Just straight wrecking shit up!! That is what you watch Micheal Turner for – just those bullish moments in a game.
Turner, gotta love ’em.
I guess this will always be a love / hate relationship we have between us.
Georgia Native, Indiana Resident, and Falcon Loving S.O.B.
Yeah, thats me.
he is not tenative, he is patient.
There isn’t Lways a hole to run through right away. You don’t gain yards strictly by hitting the line at full speed every time.
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
by Duff_Man on Dec 10, 2010 1:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly.
When talking about young backs, one of the biggest things that you hear coaches cite is the fact that inexperienced backs always want to hit the hole full speed, rather than allowing the hole to develop and then hitting it. When you hit it full speed every time, you often don’t give your linemen enough time to open up the hole and you end up running into their backs and being stopped rather than rushing for a gain.
by hailtogeorgia on Dec 10, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
uhhhh, I think ya missed the point
My point was that I LOVE Turner but sometimes it can be maddening to watch him. I LOVE the way he brutalizes DB’s, I LOVE the way he continues to carry the ball EVERY week and wear down defenses to make Ryan’s job so much easier. I LOVE the way he drags LB’s down the field or runs them over. Those are the moments I LOVE to see in games- ME, thats all, just ME.
And who brought up JA???
And maybe patient is the word I should have used, cause generally I don’t think Bulls are tentative! lol
Anyways, – Mr. Turner please continue to do your job like you’ve been doing all year. I appreciate it very much and so does Mr. Ice.
Thanx,
THIS Falcon Fan
Georgia Native, Indiana Resident, and Falcon Loving S.O.B.
Yeah, thats me.
by ATLsince1972 on Dec 10, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
The same things people remember fondly about Jamal Anderson,
They hate about Turner. How soon people forget the I-formation, run-heavy style of Dan Reeves and how Jamal got to wear down defenses over the whole course of the game. Turner is not a highlight reel player. He does exactly what we need and makes almost zero mistakes. The guy is a true pro.
But hey…Jamal did a funny dance when he scored, so he must be better!
I'm on the Twitter: twitter.com/edgrohl
by Duff_Man on Dec 10, 2010 1:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I know man, SHHHHHH!!
be vewy, vewy quiet. He’s hunting wabbits!
Georgia Native, Indiana Resident, and Falcon Loving S.O.B.
Yeah, thats me.
by ATLsince1972 on Dec 10, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
too late
hopefully it won’t happen at a critical point
by brotherbrown on Dec 11, 2010 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
my laptop crashed
and I have to retype my long post here…
Turner is one of the major reasons behind Matt Ryan’s success. His steady running allowed him to mature gradually, without having to carry this team from Day 1. Very few 1 round QB’s get this kind of opportunity.
Turner is not the second coming of Brown, or OJ Simpson, or Marcus Allen. He’s not an explosive RB like Chris Johnson, or AP, or LT, but he does get at least some yardage. If the opposing D is able to limit him to under 50 yards consider that success.
There are two things I wish were a little different about our RB’s, one of these things having to do with Tuner’s skills and his usage:
1. Playcalling. I know running up the gut eventually wears down the D line and he’s able to break a longer run late in the game. But please be a little more creative, use other resources. Have Gartrell Johson run some explosive plays, so that the D doesn’t at least get the point (that we always run it up the middle).
2. I hope Turner practices catching the ball, unless he’s practicing his ball carrier skills. Imagine what kind of threat he’d be to the DBs if he catches the ball 5-6 yards behind the line of scrimmage? That’s the difference between him and Snelling, and that’s something that makes us slightly one-dimensional when Turner is in the backfield.
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
laptop crashing?
I had a GF once, who had trouble with her laptop.
The motherboard died out and trapped all of her precious files inside.
My friend whom I’m currently working for helped retrieved her files, and I helped her get a new computer (desktop).
Two months later she left me permanently.
Laptops can burn out faster than desktops because they are smaller and have less space to cool the system. So keep it cool.
I agree with you about Turner. He was a perfect compliment for Ryan’s development, so he wouldn’t be shell shocked.
Turner doesn’t appear to be the same as his 08 self from the Fan’s perspective but that’s fine for Ryan as he’s matured, and Turner still does the little things, and we’ve somewhat had a lack of weapons, and need more creativity on offense. We definately have not reached our ceiling.
The reasons for that IS baffling, but perhaps MS and TD know what they are doing.
by brotherbrown on Dec 11, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
You know how I know we're good?
We can take a stud running back like Turner who has been money (when healthy) for the last three years and claim that he’s not quite good enough. We can do the same with Ryan, Gonzo, etc. Look at Hillis; he’s all the Browns have. If Cleveland bashes him (even slightly) they lose their only silver lining to an otherwise terrible season…
Why can we be critical of a soon to be 2 time All Pro who is currently 5th in the league in rushing and 8th in the league in scoring? Because we ain’t the same Falcons anymore. We want greatness and will not settle for anything less, not anymore. And you know what, while may not be this season, it will come. Soon.
Go Falcons!
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
by Jman781 on Dec 10, 2010 3:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
So true
What I like about Turner is that he’s valuable both as an individual performer, and in how his play improves the performance of the whole offense. Some games he’s the obvious driving force behind our offense, others times his main contribution is softening up the defense for our trademark fourth-quarter breakout. Even when he gets stuffed, he has a tendency to drag out the play and force several defenders to make a tackle. Defenses just can not withstand the amount of effort that it takes to keep this guy bottled up for an entire game.
One thing I'd like to see more
Is Turner on the field on passing downs. One, I think it takes away a little bit of the predictability. Two, I think getting him the ball in space would be a good thing, and at the very least he’s a good pass blocker. Remember that hit on Ray Lewis?
Yeah, the Lewis play will probably be
on our season highlight reel. You know, the ones that Sports Illustrated sells of the SB champs every year? All I know is if the Falcons win the SB, I WILL have a subscription to SI sometime in 2011!! Cuz I want that Falcons Championship DVD and Football!!
Georgia Native, Indiana Resident, and Falcon Loving S.O.B.
Yeah, thats me.
by ATLsince1972 on Dec 10, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
it would also give Ryan more
flexibility in audibling at the LOS. once he sees the D reacting to Turner’s presense by stacking up the box he can audible a pass play. how about a screen to Turner?
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
sounds like a good idea
However maybe the team doesn’t want to use him like that.
Getting into open space to me sounds best for an instinctive player that tries to make big plays like Reggie Bush or something.
Not saying Turner wouldn’t succeed, but everyone has talked about Turner being slow and gaps can close up quickly in the NFL. It would be nice for someone to break through a seam like Lance Moore or something.
Sorry about all the Saints players, can’t think of anyone else other than chris johnson.
by brotherbrown on Dec 11, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Or...
A lot of the speed backs are hurt this year but I can think of a few who are threats to take it the distance every time they get the ball in space:
Lesean McCoy, Ahmad Bradshaw, DeAngelo Williams…Darren Sproles
by ndnpride8806 on Dec 12, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Burner has been solid.
Defenses may seem to contain him early in games, but they always have to devote a focus of their defense on him.
Turner comes up big when it counts.
What I liked about the Bucs game was that so many other Falcons came up with key contributions. Weems with the 102 yard kick off return, Ovie with the big effort on the TD catch, and Mr Jinx with the final TD.
Great to see players other than Roddy Ryan Turner and Gonzo playing a big part.
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
Not that I highly respect Peter King
but this guy said in his column last week, that looking into week 13 games, he thought one guy to pay attention to would be Jenkins – and not just in the Bucs game but in the whole league. he reasoned that with White covered by Talib and Barber on Gonzo Jenkins would have a catch or two. and he even predicted the first TD for Jenkins this season!
Atlanta Falcons fan in Moscow, Russia
Jenkins has been a great role player for us since coming back...
The guy has as much speed as Roddy and he’s been a huge addition since he’s gotten back. He’s like the Lamar Odom to Roddy’s Kobe and Tony G.’s Pau Gasol when it comes to the passing game
by ndnpride8806 on Dec 12, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
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