Roddy White Looking For A Big Payday
by Dave Choate on Aug 3, 2009 3:35 PM EDT
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As Roddy White's holdout enters its third day, our old friend Steve Wyche of NFL.com reports that the receiver is looking to land a fat new contract.
We knew this, of course. The Falcons aren't blind and Roddy had outperformed his current contract by some very tall leaps and bounds, so an extension needed to happen. It's what White might be asking for that makes this situation difficult to resolve.
According to Wyche, White is looking for money to exceed the Packers' Greg Jennings, who signed a deal worth $16 million straight up and up to $30 million with escalations for performance. You could draw enough of a talent parallel betweeen that two that a similar deal wouldn't hurt, especially if we locked up Roddy for three or four years. I can buy that, and if the Falcons have the cash and the inclination to tie in that much money to the guy, okay. I'm not looking to return to the dark ages of Peerless Price in this receiving corps.
Yet the possibility remains that Roddy's asking for money in the range of someone like the Cardinals' Larry Fitzgerald, which is flippin' insane. Fitzgerald exists on another plane of being from White, and he may very well be the best wide receiver in the league right now. For White to look for something like the 4 year, $40 million accord penned by Fitzgerald would seem to imply that he's one of the two or three best receivers in the league, which--with apologies to a guy who has been fantastic for us for two years--is not the case at all.
Here's a quick comparison between the two:
- White: 88 receptions, 1,382 yards, 15.7 yards per catch, 7 TDs
- Fitzgerald: 96 receptions, 1,431 yards, 14.9 yards per catch, 12 TDs
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Agreed...
But there is nothing wrong with asking…." Closed mouths can’t get fed! "
"If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong..."
I know Roddy is just looking out for his multimillion dollar wallet
But this hold out needs to be resolved with little to no bad blood between the organization and White. I don’t want this putting a cloud over the upcoming season.
You have opinions. Share them.
Of course...
We have OUR reasons for wanting Roddy in camp. But in a league without guaranteed contracts, you can’t fault him for wanting to get his money. After all, the real money is in the signing bonus. He could suck and get cut next year, with nothing but the signing bonus in his pocket.
Jamal Anderson held out, got his money, then got hurt. What if he didn’t get his money and got hurt? You only have a few good years to play football…if you are lucky.
"If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong..."
I just hope it is resolved quickly. I’d like to lock Roddy down for the long haul, and allow the chemistry between he and Ryan to grow over the next several years. But if he is looking for Fitz kind of money there needs to be an understanding that it is just not going to happen.
Also the link to the NFL.com article is not working. It links to the image of Roddy. Just a heads up.
"If you can’t get excited for Ryan throwing to Gonzalez, you’re either a robot or clinically dead. Or you’re a zombie robot, which is just plain awesome."
Dave the Falconer
by Pregame with Pabst on Aug 3, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions
Fixed
Thanks for the heads up.
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give the man his money
get his butt in camp and lets go to work
doesn’t add much to the conversation but i just wanted to say it
The problem
Is that Jennings contract was 3 years and $27 Million (with bonuses that could put it up as high as 3-$30M). Even if you think the Packers over-paid for Jennings, there’s not that much difference between his $9M per year and Fitz’s $10M per year… Plus, if it’s a 4 year extension (for example), in 3 years it might look like a semi-bargain because other WRs will have signed extensions for more $$ in that time. It always looks huge right when the new $$ kicks in…
As for not being in the “top 2 or 3” WRs in the league, maybe not – but he certainly is in the top 5-8, AND would be one of the youngest (Fitz is only about to turn 26 – holy crap!) of that group: Moss and TO are well into their 30’s (TO is already well into his decline), Steve Smith and Reggie Wayne are both 30 already (but will probably still perform near their current level for the next 4 years)…
I guess what I’m saying is if Roddy can live with the $9.3M per year that Lee Evans got last year (4-$37.25M), I wouldn’t think that they over-paid badly, especially if they could throw a good chunk of that $$ into the potentially un-capped 2010 season…
Wow, Lee Evans got that kind of money?
Hard to argue against Roddy now.
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Not too much difference
I love the fact that we are throwing around numbers like this and saying that there is not too much difference between $9M and $10M. To me that difference is $1,000,000.00, and that is quite a difference. What I wouldn’t give to be the 3rd string QB making league minimum, sigh…
"If you can’t get excited for Ryan throwing to Gonzalez, you’re either a robot or clinically dead. Or you’re a zombie robot, which is just plain awesome."
Dave the Falconer
by Pregame with Pabst on Aug 4, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
I guess you’re right – it does sound crazy to say one MEELLION dollars is not too much difference. But (if I understand it right) in the NFL, it will only get you: A) 3 rookies making league minimum, or B) 2 guys with 2 years in the league (making the minimum), or C) 1 guy with 10+ years (making the minimum)…
Pay The Man
I believe that anyone should honor the agreement that they agreed to! I, also, believe the the other party involved should recognize when an individual has earned more. And when they recognize it, act accordingly. That obviously isn’t happening. We don’t know how much Roddy is asking for. However, we do know what he means to the team. We do know what he means to the people he cares for (his family and friends). Eventhough he had a number of drops, he had over 500 yrds in his rookie yr. And over 1200 yrds each of the last 2 yrs. That is a result of hardwork and determination. So pay the man! Period!
Correction
He had almost 500 yrds his rookie season and over 500 his 2nd yr.
by THE ICON KING E on Aug 3, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He does need to get paid
But if the reports are true and he is asking for money that would put him up with the top one or two receivers in the league, that’s a real salary cap handicap, and two seasons of excellent play doesn’t quite earn that. No doubt he deserves a bigger check, though.
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Salary Cap Handicap
I agree that this is probably what is holding things up for Dimitroff. With an extension for Roddy, there would be a ton of money tied up in these guys on offense for several years: Roddy, Turner, Matt Ryan, and (not quite as much) Sam Baker (not to mention Ovie and Tony G). If they commit to that, things might get squeezed in other areas – namely the defense. Of course, that plan has worked OK for the Colts the last 5-10 years…
I guess we need to...
Pay the man, but I think $9M/per is good for a three year extension. By then, if he’s performed like the receiver he thinks he is, he’ll be in line for the BIG money.
Now, if only his agent would admit to that logic, we’d go on with training camp and get him ready for the season.
anyone would like to have that kind of money
but i dont think he truley expects it its how you haggle you throw out a unbelievable offer and work your way back to reality i wouldnt think to much of it
Roddy
One season don’t deserve 100 million. We haven’t 4got about the previous seasons b4 then so when he do that ,at least back 2 back 2 show he is not a contract year show out, then he should b paid like his stats weigh.
Southern Dirt.
"As for not being in the "top 2 or 3" WRs in the league, maybe not – but he certainly is in the top 5-8"
sorry, not true. Roddy is top 15, but his big numbers are the result of his high targeting. Jenkins isn’t exactly electric and we had zero TE receiving last year, and also Turner is not a receiving back.
If you swap White and Douglas I think Matt will put up similar numbers. The Laurent loss hurts… head scratcher on that one. But with Gonzo in the mix and with this being a running team, Roddy is not a $10m player. He’s not a $10m player on any team. $7 is right, I’d be happy with $8. For $10? No deal, let him sit out the season and then go drop passes for someone else next year. I’m telling you, Douglas is the man.
by nathan rothschild on Aug 4, 2009 9:14 AM EDT reply actions
I would say 5-8
You’re arguement would hold true for Calvin Johnson (high # of targets) and Andre Johnson (high number of targets) who are both considered the cream of the crop when it comes to WR (both in the NFC and the AFC).
If you have the talent and ability then you’ll get targeted more often because of the threat that you present when you have the ball in your hands.
And I agree with you, I think Douglas is the man as well.
"If you can’t get excited for Ryan throwing to Gonzalez, you’re either a robot or clinically dead. Or you’re a zombie robot, which is just plain awesome."
Dave the Falconer
by Pregame with Pabst on Aug 4, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Really??
Name 14 WRs that are better. According to Football Outsiders’ numbers, he was the #3 WR (DYAR) last year. And that was certainly not just because of the high number of targets – they had him as the #5 most effective/explosive (DVOA) WR last year. A guy who puts up big numbers just because of huge target numbers is Brandon Marshall… I probably have Roddy 5th (maybe that’s a couple spots too high, but I’m convinced he’s comfortably in that tier). This is my list for RIGHT NOW, but with an eye toward the next 3-4 years (considering age, injuries, etc):
1) SuperDuperStars: Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Steve Smith.
2) Elite Franchise WRs: Roddy, Reggie Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Hines Ward, Greg Jennings.
3) Number One Guys: Anquan Boldin, Chad Ochocinco, Marques Colston.
4) Stars (includes up-and-comers & on-the-way-outers): TO, Bernard Berrian, Lee Evans, Vincent Jackson, Brandon Marshall, TJ Whos-ya-momma, Anthony Gonzalez, Derrick Mason, Dwayne Bowe, Torry Holt, Santonio Holmes.
5) So over-rated it hurts my brain: Braylon Edwards.
Crap, that was a lot harder than I thought. I have no idea about the order inside each tier (especially #4), but I feel pretty good about the different levels. Tell me where I’m wrong…
Oh, the thing with the drops is blown totally out-of-proportion. He does not drop a high percentage of passes (anymore). There were a couple of big ones, maybe (Denver, Arizona); and he has a fairly high number of drops, but that’s because he gets thrown so many passes.
Hines Ward
I could also argue for Holmes being listed in category #3, but really Ward is the only one I see that is obviously wrong. I’m assuming you are saying T.O. is on his way out, so by that account so must Ward be. Ward takes way too many hard hits (and delivers some of his own) and has been playing far too long to be considered a franchise WR. Personally I think T.O. is much better than Ward, but that’s me.
Plus, wouldn’t your SuperDuperStars also be your Elite Franchise WR’s?
Well,
I was trying to have a separate category for the top 4, so that’s what I came up with. Yes, I do think TO is on his way out, but you’re right – 2 notches below Ward seems wrong. But here’s my thinking:
TO – He is 35 (turns 36 in December). He always has a fair amount of drops (50% Catch Rate last year). His DVOA was pretty bad last year (but a lot of that may have been because of the Brad Johnson games). I also probably subconsciously downgraded him because he’s a Grade-A jerk. I agree he is too low for NOW, but I’m not sure how long he’ll stick around in the future…
Ward – He just turned 33 (in March). You are right that his body may be older than that because of all the hits, though. I did knowingly bump him up because of his well-known blocking ability. As for receiving numbers, he was fantastic again last year – 66% Catch Rate, #10 in DVOA and #7 in DYAR. He was much, much better than Holmes in the regular season (48% Catch Rate, #60 DVOA, #60 DYAR). I think Holmes has the talent, but he has yet to put it together for a whole season. It’s so hard to try to figure out how to rank the WRs on teams that have 2 good/great ones, like Fitz and Boldin, or especially Hines and Holmes (since one is clearly on the way up, and one clearly winding it down)…
I wouldn’t be too against knocking Ward down to #3, and bumping TO up to #3, I guess.
close
Calvin is in group #1, no doubt. Roddy does NOT belong in that group with those receivers.
But group 2 is fair. Reggie Wayne is better, Roddy edges Jennings. Ward can fall to group 3. TO honestly belongs in group 1, I mean lets not kid ourselves… TO is a monster. Chad 85 could get back into group 1 – he’s better than Roddy. Roddy is with Bowe and Brandon Marshal.
by nathan rothschild on Aug 4, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Roddy's better than Marshall, and probably Bowe
Marshall’s trouble and injury prone and hasn’t had a run of fantastic success yet.
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Well,
2004 TO – definitely in Group 1.
2007 TO – yeah, still solidly in Group 1.
2009 TO? – I don’t think he even sniffs Group 1, but “agree to disagree”.
I wouldn’t argue too much about Chad Johnson being near Group 1 in talent (and giving him the benefit of the doubt of last season w/o Palmer most of the year). I’m trying to follow your thinking, though. Even worst-case (for Roddy), it looks like you’re saying: AJ, Fitz, Moss, Smith, Calvin, TO, Ochocinco, then Reggie Wayne, then Roddy. That would put him at #9. But then you say “with Bowe and Marshall” – are you bumping them up, or pushing Roddy down? Just wondering – I would strongly disagree with bumping Marshall up…
one more thing
I don’t think it’s fair to rate them based on things that haven’t happened yet. I’ll stick with the TO/Ward example. To, has averaged almost 1200 yards for 11 straight years & over 1000 yards per year for his career. Ward has only averaged over 1000 yards for the last 8 years & only ~900 per year for his career. TO has averaged 10 or more TDs a year with and in 8 of his 13 years he has more than 10 TDs. Ward however has only eclipsed 10 or more TDs in 3 of his 11 years, barely maintaining a 6 TD per year average for his career.
If you look at just the last five four years before last season, Ward had less yards each year, while TO was steadily increasing his, with the exception of his injury shortened year in Philly. Until there is evidence of a decline, I think it’s a little short sighted to rate them as declining.
Although, this all really is moot. Roddy is definitely one of the top ten WR’s in the game right now. One could probably debate who should be in the top three, but after that I think you could essentially shuffle the rest and it wouldn’t make much of a difference. I know, that’s my easy way out, haha, sue me.
Yeah,
I probably over-estimated how much I thought he was slipping (I mean, he still averaged 15.2 YPC and had 10 TDs). But I do have 2 main reasons for thinking he’s clearly declining (besides simply looking at his age).
1) His DVOA was way, way down from his usual numbers – that’s a Football Outsiders stat that takes into consideration things like Catch Rate, strength of opposing defenses, and Down & Distance (an 8 yard catch on 3rd and 15 vs DET is not the same value as an 8 yard catch on 3rd and 7 vs PIT).
2) Watching him get completely shut down (by single coverage) in the second game vs Washington last year – 5 catches for 38 yards?? Also, because of reading stories about how he couldn’t beat a jam as well last year, so Dallas was putting him in motion a ton, and even hiding him in the slot some…
Another thing to note is that until the last couple years, Pittsburgh was a decidedly run-first team. So you would expect TO’s raw numbers to be higher. I’m certainly not saying Ward is better (only one of these guys is on the short list for Team of the Decade)…
As far as it not being “fair to rate them based on things that haven’t happened yet”, I was trying to think like Dimitroff might (I know, that’s like trying to “understand the mind of God”, huh?). He’s going to want to pay based on what is going to happen in the next 3-4 years, not what happened in the past 5 years.
Its hard to compare those 2
they’re apples and orang3b to each other, ward is a find a hole in the defense on 3rd down, give me the ball I’ll give you those hard to get yards, I love to lay ppl out type of guy. TO on the other hand is throw it deep I’ll catch it, intermediate pass break a tackle turn it into a TD type of guy. Then also what teams they have played for which orang3b already said. but TO is still a top 10 WR even though i can’t stand “I love me some me, get the popcorn ready” little baby
Oh, I forgot
Harry Douglas only had 39 passes thrown his way last year. 39!! Tons and tons of guys have looked pretty good on only 23 receptions. He may be “the man” down the road, but I don’t think he would be anywhere close to putting up Roddy’s production if their roles were switched this year…
Never considered Roddy the sharpest knife in the drawer so we’ll see this kid’s maturity level and how he handles this situation. Roddy put up one good season while the other seasons were dropped balls. Fans will turn their back if he demands too much. I suggest he put up a league leading season than we can talk big money.
Harmony of the team is what’s most important at this time, prima donnas are expendable.
Harmony
I believe that both sides are working toward a deal that benefits both parties. Roddy wants to be in ATL and TD wants him to stay. They’ll work something out. As for being a Prima Donna I certainly wouldn’t consider Roddy White a Prima Donna. He is a very good WR on a run first team. He knows is role, and doesn’t demand “more touches.” He plays is part very well and has for the past two seasons. Everyone refers to him as being a model teammate and one who is working to better both himself and the team.
I would argue that he has had 2 good seasons and was the one of the only brightspots on a 2007 campaign. He has caught over 1200 yards each season over the past two years and has frankly outplayed his deal. I’d rather us sign him and lock down a talented WR as he enters his prime. With Steve Smith recently turning 30 and Antonio Bryant being the louse that he is, I could see Roddy developing into the best WR is the NFC South over the next 3 years.
"If you can’t get excited for Ryan throwing to Gonzalez, you’re either a robot or clinically dead. Or you’re a zombie robot, which is just plain awesome."
Dave the Falconer
by Pregame with Pabst on Aug 4, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
To all the TO fans...
1. HE DROPS PASSES TOO.
2. He is a constant headache for his QB and coaching staff
3. He gives up on plays that aren’t designed for him
Yes he is a great WR but he isn’t worth the baggage that comes with him. If the worst thing Roddy does is hold out for a new contract, I’ll take him over any WR besides Anquan or Fitz. All the other “elite” WRs that have been mentioned are either in a pass first offense, are nearing the downside of their career, or get in trouble off the field.
by FLA_Falcon on Aug 4, 2009 4:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Any WR but Anquan and Fitz?
I’d give my right flibberyflam if we had Calvin Johnson.
"If you can’t get excited for Ryan throwing to Gonzalez, you’re either a robot or clinically dead. Or you’re a zombie robot, which is just plain awesome."
Dave the Falconer
by Pregame with Pabst on Aug 5, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
We could've had Calvin Johnson
But on the balance, I think we made the right choice by not trading all our picks to move up and get him…
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Not I
We could have easily traded the JA pick and one of our lower round picks who probably aren’t even on the roster anymore to get CJ and been a much better team for it.
and according to the butterfly effect
then Harrington would have probably looked pretty solid with Roddy White and CJ to throw to, then next thing you know, we wouldn’t have felt such a great need for Matt Ryan and then we’d still be in a full blown “rebuilding” stage right now…. things worked out well enough IMO.
know what you believe in and why you believe in it
why Roddy is worth it
Are we forgetting the 2010 cap limits ?
We need to lock him down before next season gets crazy , and if he’s reading this ,….. HEY RODDY , GET YOUR BUTT IN CAMP A.S.A.P…….
by Derrydeez on Aug 4, 2009 11:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That's a really good point
If that happens, the last thing we’re going to be worrying about is how big Roddy’s contract is.
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Never...
Never get in the way of someone trying to get his money. Not Fitz money, but at least Evans/Jennings. I wish he was here, but I can’t knock his hustle…
N ot
F or
L ong
"If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong..."
Roddy White
If White wants to hold out so what let him hold out cause he’s doing it for all the wrong reasons MONEY. Like he doesn’t have enough money now boo hoo!!! He can hold out till he gets what he wants all he wants to but the thing is he signs a contract and then all he does is drop the ball all season and then what? And then everybody says all that money he held for and he can’t even live up his expectations. Or even worse he gets to the first game and blows out knee a career ending knee injury. Remember JAMAL ANDERSON!!!!!.
But what if?
And if Jamal didn’t hold out, would he have gotten that signing bonus?
You only have so many years to play this kid’s game. If you are one of the best, why not get paid for it? It’s funny to me that people say he is doing it for the wrong reasons. No one here has ever tried to get more money on their job?
PUHLEEZE……. Get that money Roddy!!!
"If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong..."
I hope so.
I like Roddy White he’s a great receiver and he is a very BRIGHT STAR. But You can’t let down your team when they need you the most. He’s has finally got a quater back that is not stingy with the football and they meaning the falcons have a very good chance to go farther in the playoffs. Right now, in this time players can’t be to choosy owners and organizations have the means to replace and they will. They can and will find a replacement that is just as ambitious. Roddy had one good season last year and half the year before that does’nt mean he’s going to have a great season this year especially if he holds out for to long. The moneu will come thats for sure. Lets not get greedy. Lets get on the practice field and do what you do best to be the best. How wrong is that?
by j24 on Aug 8, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
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