The Dirty Bird Reigns Supreme
by Adam Schultz on Jun 26, 2009 8:00 AM EDT
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- Cannonball Butler* (4 Years): ATT - 609, YDS - 2250, TDs - 9, YPC - 3.7, YPG - 42.5 / REC - 71, YDS - 718, TDs - 5, YPR - 10.1, RYPG - 13.5
- Bob Christian* (6 years): ATT - 137, YDS - 625, TDs - 12, YPC - 4.6, YPG - 6.2 / REC - 183, YDS - 1603, TDs - 6, YPR - 8.8, RYPG - 2.0
- Dave Hampton* (5 years): ATT - 882, YDS - 3482, TDs - 17, YPC - 3.9, YPG - 67 / REC - 82, YDS - 823, TDs - 3, YPR - 10, RYPG - 15.8
- * - As before, I'm only including these players' Falcons stats
I must say I knew close to nothing about any of these players. To help me (and you) out, I've included their tenures with the team. I'm going with Dave Hampton because he accomplished more in less time than Bob and has a better ground game than Cannonball (though, had Butler stayed another year, their rushing stats would probably be nearly identical).
Rock the vote!
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It is obvious
that Dave Hampton is the winner. and yes I was around he was playing, so yes I saw him play.
Life is a garden. Dig it!
by Hardcore Falcon on Jun 26, 2009 9:32 AM EDT reply actions
This is really difficult
It’s so hard for me to compare Dave Hampton to Bob Christian. Fullbacks were used so much differently in the ’70s and ’80s than there were in the ’90s and are used now.
Christian, for instance, only had 137 carries in 6 years. He played in 93 games, so that’s only 1-1/2 carries per game. He was used mainly as a blocker – and sometimes he’d catch a pass or 2…
Hampton, on the other hand, was listed as the Fullback his years in Atlanta, but he was the primary ball-carrier. ’72 through ’75 he had 870 carries and the Halfbacks (Art Malone, Haskel Stanback, plus a couple others with a few carries) only had 648 carries in that same time frame.
If you want to be nit-picky about it, William Andrews was listed as the Fullback for his years in Atlanta (Lynn Cain was the Halfback).
I’m going to have to think about this one quite a while before I vote…
Well,
Hardcore saw them both play, and he seems pretty adamant about Hampton being better, so I guess I’m voting Hampton. Plus, there’s no available stats for blocking to possibly sway my vote to Christian (it’s not like it’s going to matter anyway – he’s got a huge lead now).
Tough vote
But I had to go for Bob Christian. One of the finest blockers I’ve seen in my lifetime, and I will always think of that as the traditional role of the fullback. Perhaps that makes me a fool.
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Ovie Mughelli would probably disagree with your assertion, Fearless Leader.
But Bob was a great blocker. So let’s just say it takes different strokes.
You have opinions. Share them.
by Adam Schultz on Jun 26, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
If so, then I'm gonna be foolish with ya
I’m going with Christian because of these reasons listed above. Two specifically would be that A) I believe a FB’s role is not to carry the rushing game for a team, but to help pave the way for the that attack; and B) that the others listed were essentially the team’s primary RB, which pretty much kicks them out of A.
I’ve had this debate with myself, and others, for nearly a decade. If a player is listed at the FB position and get’s 85%(or w/e you want your majority % to be) or more of the carries, should he still be considered as a FB? I typically have had this conversation with regard to the college game more-so than the pro level because it just doesn’t happen anymore in The League. I finally decided that if a FB is the primary option when a running play is called, and he gets the majority of carries, then he no longer qualifies as a FB regardless of where the team has him listed. At that point, in my mind, he has firmly corsses over to the RB realm.
This has made it easier for me to separately evaluate RBs from FBs. I value a FB for their blocking abilities, with the occasional carry or reception thrown in. The clencher for me really is how I remember a player. I remember RBs because of their amazing running ability, juking guys in the open field, the blazing speed for those long dashes to payday. I remember FBs because of the holes they create, the ends they seal, the unsuspecting LB or S that gets absolutely trucked by a FB coming from the blindside.
This doesn’t mean that I don’t value the stats that they do accumulate, oh god no. Trust me, I’ glad we are doing this for the Falcons and not the Bucs, because I would be hard pressed to not put Alstott on both RB and FB ballots. Either way, to me it has to be Christian.
"If Woody were Captain of the Titanic, he'd argue the boat sinking speaks to how effectively they put rich people in life boats and lock the poor folks below."
-jrauch commenting at Hoopinion on Woody's (non)logic in his post-game comments
Two things
1) I’m glad you mentioned Alstott, because while I was looking to see if Christian made any Pro Bowls (he didn’t) I saw that he was the NFC Pro Bowl FB all those years (even though he wasn’t really used like a modern Fullback).
2) The modern “blocking” Fullback is just that – a modern concept. The best I can tell, the change started happening in the early ‘80s towards a reduced role and fewer carries for the Fullback. That’s what you and I think a Fullback should be, because that’s all we’ve ever seen required of them. Block, block, block, catch a few passes, block again, and maybe get a goal-line carry (they really don’t even get that much anymore). But that doesn’t mean that these other guys aren’t Fullbacks – it just means that they don’t translate into a modern offense.
The direct snap or toss from the center usually went to the tailback or fullback; however, the quarterback could also take the ball. The tailback was very important to the success of the offense because he had to run, pass, block, and even punt. Unlike today, the quarterback usually blocked at the point of attack. -Single Wing Offense
In the ’70s most teams had a running game that we now call “by committee”, but with the Fullback getting the majority of the carries.
Here’s some guys that are listed as Fullbacks (with their rank on the all-time rushing list): Jim Brown (8), Franco Harris (12), John Riggins (15), Joe Perry (25), Larry Csonka (37), William Andrews (69), and Dave Hampton (133). Would they be Fullbacks if they played in today’s game? No, they’d be Halfbacks and/or Tailbacks (see, we don’t even use those terms anymore – the primary runner is just called the “Running Back”).
If we’re trying to field an all-time roster that could (hypothetically) compete in a game now, the FB should probably be Christian. If we’re trying to decide who the greatest player in Falcon franchise history that happened to be called a Fullback, that should be William Andrews (well, Dave Hampton for this vote).
um
Hampton was also a great blocker, when required to do so as was Warrick Dunn for example… SO please do not make this about traditional roles of fullbacks, yadda yadda… I say BS to that. Hampton was a full back and was the best one the Falcons has ever had. Period.
Life is a garden. Dig it!
by Hardcore Falcon on Jun 26, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but that wasn't Dunn's main role on the team
He wasn’t used from the FB position and he was the teams number one option in the rushing game. That arguement is weak because that would mean we should consider Jenkins as a FB because he blocks so well on running plays, and that is no where near what I’m basing my opinion on.
I don’t think how we derive our opinions of what should or shouldn’t be a FB vs a RB is going to change who gets nominated for those positions and ends up on the polls. In fact, I would argue against that myself and I think Warlock is correct by having the players listed so far the way he has. But my opinion, as well as yours and everyone else’s, will determine how we vote on those players listed and I see nothing wrong with that. My opinion of how the position should be defined ends with me picking Christian, whereas your opinion has you picking Hampton.
It’s as simple as that, so I’m sorry, but your opinion isn’t the end of the discussion. ‘Period’.
"If Woody were Captain of the Titanic, he'd argue the boat sinking speaks to how effectively they put rich people in life boats and lock the poor folks below."
-jrauch commenting at Hoopinion on Woody's (non)logic in his post-game comments
that
didnt make a damn bit of sense to me. you are reverse arguing the position now. I give up.
Life is a garden. Dig it!
by Hardcore Falcon on Jun 29, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
just an opinion
i don’t think you can judge a fullback by any kind of stat they list so thats what makes it so hard to pick
for the guys who were around when hampton played they might be inclined to go with him and vice versa with bob
its all about heart with fullbacks and bob was all heart
it killed me when i saw bob laid out on that field and knowing he might not ever suit up for the birds again
Actually seeing them play does help make a difference in the vote.
It’d be nice if I could (legally) scrounge up some highlight reels. Alas, the NFL frowns upon such endeavors.
You have opinions. Share them.
by Adam Schultz on Jun 26, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
tell me about it
I’m having a heck of a time trying to get that game film I said I might be able to get from 99. I don’t understand why they wouldn’t want every piece of film avalaible to anyone who wanted to watch it. I would think that might be a way of getting more casual viewers realling into the game.
"If Woody were Captain of the Titanic, he'd argue the boat sinking speaks to how effectively they put rich people in life boats and lock the poor folks below."
-jrauch commenting at Hoopinion on Woody's (non)logic in his post-game comments
Bob Christian
He was a beast of a blocker and opened up a lot of holes for his halfback. But unfortunately they don’t keep that stat on paper. Also, if he got the ball running
north/ south you didn’t want to meet him head on. My vote is for Bob!!
I guess it depends on how rigid you want to be about it.
If Hampton played in the last 25 years, he would have been a tailback most likely since he was the featured runner. Christian was a blocking back but a great one (and a pretty good option as a receiver).
"When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something"
-Dick Butkus
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