A Very Falcoholic Discussion: John Abraham
The topic today is one John Erasmus Ezekiel Awesome Abraham, our former pass-rushing master who has not quite lived up to his billing thus far this year.
What inspired me to spark this discussion, honestly, was a question from a commenter over at Hogs Haven about my expectations for Abraham on Sunday. While their question was light-hearted—at least I hope it was, considering they were asking if I predicted 3+ sacks from the guy—it got me to thinking about Abraham's relatively low sack total and whether he might be entering the decline phase of his career.
Rather than write a whole big post where I basically guessed, I thought I'd turn to you, the reader, for a more educated guess. Is Abraham slowing down after a run of excellence, or is it just a slow start to the season? Can he kill Jason Campbell on Sunday, or just maim him?
Your call.
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Well...
I have had the same concerns myself. The thing is, he is still getting penetration and pushing people back into the backfielfd pretty consistently. The guy gets held more than anyone I have ever seen as well. I expect that he will at some point break out and have a multi-sack game. If it doesnt happen it is his own fault. they guy still has enough skill to get it done, is his unjury(whatever it is) slowing him just enough to make him ineffective??? I don’t think so. Lets see what happens on Sunday. I think this is a good shot for him to redeem himself.
Life is a garden. Dig it!
by Hardcore Falcon on Nov 6, 2009 8:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He gets a great push
with his bull rush. And I swear he gets the arm “hook” hold everytime he tries his speed rush. In the Bears game, Pace had that left arm hooked around his pads all night. I can’t believe this isn’t called more this year. It used to be if the offensive lineman had his arm hooked around the pads and you carried the defender to the ground it was an automatic holding call.
by NewAgeDirtyBirdFan on Nov 6, 2009 9:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Saints were doing it all night as well.
It got called twice. There was one non-call that was shown in a replay where the OL had his hands on the end of John’s left shoulder, UNDER the padding, pulling with all his might to keep him from Brees. The result of the play was a 13 yard completion to Shockey.
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by tlozwarlock on Nov 6, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the pats game too
i still remember the big WTF highlight reel of him getting blocked (read: held)
Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I don't like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that. - Bill Shankly
by armchair quarterback on Nov 6, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is he going to have the opportunity?
VanGorder has dropped him into coverage on the Zone Blitz more and more the past few weeks:
Miami – 2
Carolina – 9
Patriots – 4
San Fran – 11
Bears – 9
Dallas – 12
I don’t have the totals for New Orleans yet.
Now, those are the totals for all Zone Blitzes on passing downs, but I’d bet he was the guy dropping into coverage ~80% of the time. But against Dallas (for instance), he still was available to rush the QB on 24 of the 34 pass plays – and didn’t get a single sack.
Basically, I think it’s both 1) how he’s being used, and 2) a slow start to the season for him. I wish I had hits/hurries stats available to see how much those are down, too… There is no doubt in my mind he is already in the “decline phase” of his career (he’s 31), but this would be a severe drop-off (from 16.5 to a projected 7). As long as he’s healthy, he should be able to get pressure against the ’Skins, though.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by orang3b on Nov 6, 2009 9:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Much like Porter 2 years ago in Miami...
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
by NaGaNole on Nov 6, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just last night i was reading
in regard to sack totals this year.
There have been just 521 sacks in 7,630 pass attempts so far this year, among the lowest rates of sack-success in NFL history
it makes me wonder if the rule changes protecting the quarterback are pushing the trend. that, in addition to the lack of holding calls discussed above.
Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I don't like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that. - Bill Shankly
by armchair quarterback on Nov 6, 2009 11:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think thats safe to say
I say bring back the headslap. I’m tired of all these rules protecting QBs like you would your grandma.
This might or might not be the article you were referring to but its a good read
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/kerry_byrne/11/05/sacks/index.htmlby zooker on Nov 6, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'll be fine - *this* year.
I leave it to more knowledgeable folks to discuss all those drops into coverage.
I think his overall performance will be fine this year, whether or not the sacks add up. I won’t be holding my breath about upcoming years though.
by widderslainte on Nov 6, 2009 11:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Injuries could easily be a factor
Back when Abe was acquired from the Jets he had an established rep for being injury prone, and more often than not he’s had some sort of nagging problem since. Given the fact that every team “games” their injury news now (to some extent), I wonder if Abe’s got some physical issue that’s holding him back. At 31, your body doesn’t heal as quickly either.
Agree that usage is something that the Falcons need to look at, too. If you’re only going to get X snaps out of him, pick your spots better for Pete’s sake!
by tom slick on Nov 6, 2009 12:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
meh
Everyone is injury prone in the NFL, it’s a collision sport. Personally, I don’t see why anyone would think he was injured if you’ve watched him play at all recently. I’ve watched him catch RB’s from behind after being forced five plus yards behind the play by an o-lineman. I think it all results from two things, A) so far the competition faced this year has been much tougher than by this same time last year and B) I think he is being dropped back into coverage much more than he was last year because of the zone blitz package BVG relies way too heavily on.
On a defensive line that gets almost zero pass rush to begin with there is absolutely zero reason to take your best pass rusher out of position to try covering a RB or TE, or heaven forbid a slot receiver. It might work against inferior teams, but it isn’t working against the top teams.
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."-----Cormican on Bleeding Green Nation w/r/t fans overreacting to the Eagles signing of Michael Vick
by Jesse28 on Nov 6, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I concur
Life is a garden. Dig it!
by Hardcore Falcon on Nov 6, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jaybus dude
I seriously just posted that! Were you reading over my shoulder? Haha!
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."-----Cormican on Bleeding Green Nation w/r/t fans overreacting to the Eagles signing of Michael Vick
by Jesse28 on Nov 6, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much
I saw it pop in while I was browsing though.
Life is a garden. Dig it!
by Hardcore Falcon on Nov 6, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say
That the D-Line gets zero pass rush – see here. Possibly a bigger problem is that the blitz isn’t getting home…
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by orang3b on Nov 6, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hint*
Not everything is meant in exacts or the literal sense. Clearly we get some pass rush, that’s a given, but as a team, we are tied for 24th in the league in total sacks (14) of which only 9 are from our d-line. That alone would put us next to last, hence almost zero pash rush. Yes, I know pass rushing is more than simply sacks, that their are hits, hurries, pass break-ups, etc., but right now we are discussing sacks and that’s where this team stands right now, in the bottom half.
So, besides arguing semantics, the fact remains that Abraham is tied with Duffman at 3 on the line and is constantly being pulled into coverage and that’s the larger issue here. Anderson is limited enough without throwing him into coverage just so we can attempt to disguise a corner or safety blitz. It needs to change or our defense is gong to become even more predictable than it already is.
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."-----Cormican on Bleeding Green Nation w/r/t fans overreacting to the Eagles signing of Michael Vick
by Jesse28 on Nov 6, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Geez Jesse
Been grumpy lately? I saw your “almost”. I’m well aware of where our Sack Totals are. You don’t have to snap at me like I’m a Saints fan. I just thought it was a good place to post that link I saw about % of sacks coming with different #s of rushers.
Actually, I just looked, and the numbers match up a lot better than I thought they would:
Rushers—-Percentage of Pass Plays—-Percentage of Sacks
3——————————11.5%————————————14.3%
4——————————54.3%————————————50.0%
5——————————22.6%————————————21.4%
6——————————-8.2%————————————-7.1%
7(+)—————————3.3%————————————-7.1%
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by orang3b on Nov 6, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, wasn't meaning to come out snappy
Most definitely not with you. I guess some things got the better of me yesterday more than I thought they did. If this had taken place under a normal conversation at a bar, I promise it wouldn’t have sounded so snappy.
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."-----Cormican on Bleeding Green Nation w/r/t fans overreacting to the Eagles signing of Michael Vick
by Jesse28 on Nov 7, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean
We were having trouble reading eachother’s tone on the internet? I’ll have to check the settings on my comp…
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by orang3b on Nov 8, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
Yeah, I think my security setting on Vista blocked it.
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."-----Cormican on Bleeding Green Nation w/r/t fans overreacting to the Eagles signing of Michael Vick
by Jesse28 on Nov 9, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He will atone this week...
Against the skins I predict a multi-sack game for Abe, possibly 3 or 4 sacks even. I totally agree that he is being held more than any other DE in the league this year and the holds are not getting called. Against NE I swear he was held on almost every play, another game-can’t remember who- he was basiclly getting tackled or just flat out pulled down to the ground EVERY time he rushed the QB, it was truly sad to see the refs NOT calling a single hold. Did they change the rule that an o-lineman can’t just tackle or pull down a DE? I always thought that was an automatic holding penalty!!!
But, Abe will make his presence known this week and wil harrass Cambell ALL GAME LONG!!!!
LETS GO FALCONS!!
L-DAWG
by ATLsince1972 on Nov 6, 2009 2:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
abes fine
he has made some plays this year and other teams have to focus on him. hes often double teamed and usually gets a great push. im actually starting to get worried about our reciever depth. i noticed roddy on the injury list and even tho he most likely will play if something is slowing him up or he goes down we dont have much of a backup. the DT position is another concern even tho i have to give props to anderson who is doing good on the line and the coordinaters for the rotation. NEVER have him drop back and cover a tight end like that again tho shockey had him beet before the ball was even snapped i saw it the whole way. and i kno we can beat the skins but lets please give the same effort and improve from last week. i dont want a nailbite win. the skins will have an offensive game plan they’re fresh off a bye and we have to put this one out early. lets handle the biz and get n the playoffs.
by DEMBIRDZCUZ! on Nov 6, 2009 2:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Weems.
He’s like the 15th receiver on our depth chart and is bound to have a breakout game on offense sooner than later. Booker is a reliable vet and don’t forget Tony G.
If White happens to go down, I think we can put on the receiver band-aids for this week (And maybe next) if it came down to it.
by Zippo729 on Nov 6, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the ATL d-line killed the saints!
The only team that has given the saints that much of a problem is the jets. Both ATL and NY had insane pass rushes that were so good that our runningbacks couldn’t even get started most of the time. So while you guys are counting sacks, and I agree that those are important, consider how devastating your pass rush has been to cause hurries, batted balls, and throw aways.
by xen-cuts on Nov 6, 2009 3:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
John the beast Abraham
He may have lost a step, but when you are constantly double and triple teamed, what do you expect, he is still a beast to be counted on. How about a little help, when he draws a crowd shouldn’t the other D-LINERS pick up some slack and bust some QB ass. We need another bookend to ctreate true havoc in the backfield?
BUC HATER
by BUC HATER on Nov 6, 2009 5:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Abe and Beer Man should have a field day.
by WarWolf on Nov 6, 2009 11:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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